The Real Reason Boys and Men Are Quietly Struggling & How to Support Them

Jason Wilson (00:00:34):

I'm concerned for boys now, they're overly anxious, apathetic, an extreme fear of failure. They're longing to be loved not only by their mothers but their fathers.

 

Mel Robbins (00:00:48):

What is it that is making men and boys souls so weary?

 

Jason Wilson (00:00:55):

We're living performance-based lives. You want to become a human being, not a human doing.

 

Mel Robbins (00:01:02):

Say that again.

 

Jason Wilson (00:01:03):

When a man always says, I'm good, nothing's wrong, that's a warning.

 

Mel Robbins (00:01:09):

How do I do this? How do I reach my husband? How do I reach my son? How do I reach my brother other? Jason Wilson, I have been waiting to get you to hop on a plane and to be here in Boston. I am thrilled you're here.

 

Jason Wilson (00:01:32):

Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I'm really happy for you. I'm proud of all that you're doing. It's amazing. I've been a fan of yours, seemed like forever. And so to see all that you're doing and the impact you're making is really inspirational. So thank you and I'm proud of you.

 

Mel Robbins (00:01:50):

Thank you for saying that. And I'm finally at a point in my life where I can receive it. So thank you and thank you for writing this book. I poured over it. There's so much that I want to unpack with you and for anybody that is listening right now, I would love for you to talk to the person. They may be in their car or at home or at work or taken a walk and they've invited us along. Could you tell them, Jason, what they could experience in their life that could be different if they really take to heart all of the wisdom that you are about to pour into us today and they apply it to their life?

 

Jason Wilson (00:02:38):

That's a really good question because so many people are suffering in silence, both men and women. And so I would tell 'em the one thing they would really get is finally the freedom that they desire and deserve. So many of us hide behind facades and there is no freedom there. So many men wear superman capes that are strangling the life out of them. And so what I offer is a path that I've traveled and successfully made it to the place where I can exist in who I am instead of what I do. And so many of us identify our worth in what we can bring to this world instead of just us just being in this world. And so if they take to heart what we share in this time together, they can finally evolve to live from the good in their heart instead of the fears of how they'll be perceived.

 

Mel Robbins (00:03:25):

Wow. The sentence about not being what you do, but allowing yourself to be who you are in your heart. And I know that this is one of those conversations that is going to be shared all around the world. And if you could speak directly to the man who's listening or the young man who may be listening who probably is never listening to this podcast, this might be the first episode that got sent to him by somebody that cares deeply about him, what will he get from this conversation and listening to you and your experience and your wisdom today?

 

Jason Wilson (00:04:11):

Every man I know they're battling internally, and so this is war being waged, but they're losing. And so what I offer is the mental and emotional tools or weapons to win this internal battle before it becomes another external war. And as men, we know what the external wars look like. It could be divorce, marital discord, or just not getting along with your children, being impatient, giving your best to the world. And when you come home, you have nothing for your family. I know what that feels like, I know what depression feels like, but I also know what freedom from depression and anxiety and unresolved anger and childhood trauma looks like. But as men, we have to have that same masculine spirit that we have in protecting our families and providing for them as healing our own selves. The same vigilance it takes to work when you're exhausted just so you can provide for your family, it's the same vigilance. You need to heal internally and to wage those wars against childhood trauma, the mother wound, the father wound, whatever it is that's causing you to lose in life, it's time that we learn how to fight the right fight.

 

Mel Robbins (00:05:22):

What I find so fascinating about you is you are possibly the most powerful, peaceful, calm presence in terms of how a human being shows up in a room and hold space. You're the kind of person that you walk in and you have this unbelievable quiet power and you can feel everybody exhale. And when I hear you talk about your work, which we're going to get into, it is very interesting. And I also know because you're a brilliant guy, intentional that you marry words like war and battles with the freedom and peace that we seek. Why do you talk in such kind of opposite terms, you know what I mean about the work that you do with boys and men and the way that men should be thinking about their healing?

 

Jason Wilson (00:06:27):

Well, I do know what's innate in us is to fight, is to be the warrior, is to provide. But also what is in us is the nurturer, the peace giver, the gentleman, the friend, the lover. These attributes or characteristics are in us, so I have to bring them together and with the warrior spirit. So because society is teaching as taught men, that being a nurturer, being kind are attributes you do not want to have or crying. We tell our boys young don't cry, but yet we found out from Dr. William Fray that tears not only contain 98% water, but also stress hormones when we cry and release this emotional pain from our bodies. So then we wonder why so many of our boys repress the pain that they feel and next thing you know they're doing something that they shouldn't. And so I always try to intersect the two of being the warrior, but also the one who can bring peace. And so when you give men both analogies, give them the warrior, but also the wisdom truthfully, we want to win and we're tired of missing the moment, which is why I wrote this book. So many of us aren't present. We are the wrong man in the moment when we need to be tender, we're tough, when we need to be patient, we're volatile or dogmatic and fathers are hurting. I get so many messages and calls from men who are tired of ruining the moment with their children.

 

(00:07:58):

And then you don't want to live and die with regrets. And so I find it my mission to help men navigate through the pressures of this world as well as the pressures they face internally without succumbing to it.

 

Mel Robbins (00:08:14):

I've been a huge fan of yours for going on seven years now. When I first started watching some of the videos you post online and some of the news broadcasts about your transformative work. But for the person that's listening right now who may be hearing your extraordinarily calming and powerful voice or watching you on YouTube right now,

Jason Wilson (00:08:44):

Sure. The journey started unfortunately in my family with trauma. My grandfather was lynched in 1936, and as a result of that, his children, my aunties and uncles could never release it. It was so much pain. And that was when I saw the effects of intergenerational trauma. From there. My mother's first marriage, I wasn't born yet, but it was very abusive and she was beaten. Her husband, the father of my brothers, would slap them with the flat sides of butcher knives, shoot guns in the house and again punch her like a sack of meat. And in 1973, Mel, my brother Larry, our brother was murdered, and my mother basically lost a will to live. She would tell me if I wasn't born, she would've taken her life and not for the community of people who surrounded her. I don't know if she would've made it out of that.

 

(00:09:40):

And I wanted to share just that brief story because during that time, my brother and I needed a father, a man to help us navigate through that pain. But unfortunately as men, especially from the 19 hundreds on, you're just taught and conditioned to provide and protect. But if you felt weakness, you were considered pusillanimous or weak, lacking courage. And as a result of that, I believe many of us take our lives, we commit to suicide 3.5 times as likely as women because there is no room to be human. When I started the cave of aum, the martial arts mentoring program, that's what it was when I first started.

 

Mel Robbins (00:10:23):

So you decided that you wanted to start a martial arts mentoring program?

 

Jason Wilson (00:10:30):

Yes. To give the boys what I long to receive from my father. He was in the same city but wasn't really present in my life. So I always longed to have that man that I could have an allegiance to who would challenge me but not condemn me, train me up in a way of manhood in a way I would become comprehensive and not overly, I guess callous or trying to be hyper masking or too sensitive. I wanted the right balance and I was looking for, I guess, comprehensive manhood and didn't find it.

 

Mel Robbins (00:11:01):

Now why martial arts?

 

Jason Wilson (00:11:02):

So the sensei to me or the coach was this father figure. It was the yearning to heal this father wound that kept festering throughout my life. And I saw the power of martial arts, but I also saw something that was a major problem. Here it is. You have men who could knock you out with one punch, choke you, tap you, sweep you, throw you at ease, but yet couldn't deal with the stress of their job.

 

(00:11:30):

Couldn't handle their wife's emotions with composure to help calm the situation that they're dealing with. You were a black belt in the gym or the dojo, but a white belt in life. And I started to connect the dots when I was fighting Mel, and I'm just trying to learn to fight. My instructor stops after he was sparring with me. He says, you're tunnel vision. I said, what do you mean? He says, you're like a shark. When it smells blood in the water, you're locked in on the prey, but you don't see the guy with the harpoon above. Why am I getting psychology training in martial arts? But that's what it was about. It really wasn't about self-defense, it was about self-control. And I tell all of my students, you cannot defend what hasn't been disciplined. And so when I started the martial arts mentoring program, it was discipline based.

 

(00:12:25):

I did scare straight programs and I realized that our boys didn't need to be scared straight. They needed to be healed. How can you expect a young boy to heal from trauma by retraumatizing him? They didn't need more discipline, they needed more love. And I shifted the model to more of a safe space, still pushing them, still giving them the fire they need, but yet giving them the opportunity to share what's heavy on their hearts. And it transformed every student that I come across because they just want an opportunity to be heard. And we have one study in-house that over 78% of our students improve their grade point average by one letter grade. And check this out, Mel, without tutoring, simply allowing them to express the heaviness, let them see their cause and effect to reset and refocus. It works. Even with a DHD symptoms, I have videos of kids couldn't even sit still for two minutes after teaching them how to breathe and then getting them to talk about what's troubling them. And that's all boys. One is the opportunity to be more than strong, more than courageous. And you can't be courageous without fear anyway. You have to learn how to feel. If you have no fear, what do you have to be courageous about? There's nothing to lose. And that's all our boys want. And truthfully, that's what our men want as well.

 

Mel Robbins (00:13:47):

Well, your work is now spread around the world. You've had award-winning documentary films made about the work that you're doing after working with men and boys and helping them build emotional resilience and intelligence and helping people heal from trauma. What keeps you up at night right now, Jason, when you think about the challenges the boys and men are facing?

 

Jason Wilson (00:14:13):

While I no longer stay up like I used to, it was hard for me to let go of the disappointments of the day. When I reached the evening, I realized that's what tomorrow is for.

 

Mel Robbins (00:14:23):

Ooh, say that again. Wait a minute. You're like spitting poetry every time you're talking. I'm like, say that again, but then I don't want to interrupt you. Say that again.

 

Jason Wilson (00:14:33):

I stopped allowing the disappointments of the day to continue until my rest. I realized that's what tomorrow is for. I can't do anymore. And so once I was able to allow myself to reset, I have a concept called the four Rs where I reflect, release, reset so that I can rest reflect on the heaviness of my day, things that I need to let go of, things that I may need to retain. What if I was impatient with my daughter or sharp to my wife? I don't want to release that because I need to revisit that and reconcile with them. Then I release anything, any thought that could become toxic, every emotion that could prevent me from resting once I've allowed that. And also I'm a spiritual man. I pray to God. I said, I pray you're pleased with my work today, but now I need to rest.

 

(00:15:22):

Once I follow those three, reflect, release and reset, now I can rest. And so when I get to the rest piece, I let it all go Mel. But to your question of the concern is that I'm concerned for boys now they're overly anxious, apathetic, an extreme fear of failure, and they're longing to be loved not only by their mothers in a certain way, but their fathers. And I have to help them navigate through all of these emotions in the moment. That's why I love martial arts because in sports, I love sports as well, especially with comprehensive coaching. But when a fist is coming at your face when a guy takes your back in jujitsu and he's choking you, when you're getting thrown and you're blindfolded, so you have to be relaxed and accept the fall, you can't fake it. And so now these emotions surface.

 

(00:16:21):

And so when I see boys crying and angry, I stop the entire class and say, why are you angry? I know you're angry. This is a surface emotion, which is why I created the earthquake of emotions exercise in this book. The anger is what is at the surface, the epicenter, what's damaging everything. We love that everyone can see. I teach them how to express the emotions at the hypo center. If you can stop them there, you'll save what's on the surface. And so a young boy may be angry at me ready to fight me, and I say, dig deeper, Christian, it's not me. It's something that happened to you. And now he cries and releases the fact that his father died when he was young, and then when his grandfather tried to help him, he passes. I had another young boy never expressed the heaviness of his grandfather dying once we gave him the freedom to feel, this boy is one of the best students we have. And so when a boy can be human, when I don't tell him to be fearless, because no one can be fearless, grown men or married men with children, understand that when your child is born, it's like your heart walking outside of your body.

 

Mel Robbins (00:17:40):

That's amazing.

 

Jason Wilson (00:17:41):

So you know, okay, there is a such thing as fear. The key is that we don't succumb to it. This is the problem when men allow ourselves to be defined by one adjective, masculinity or masculine, because it's just a set of attributes traditionally ascribed to men, strength, boldness, and aggression. So if that is our identity, that becomes our worth and then our value becomes in our work what we do. Then you wonder why so many men, especially athletes when they retire, they have no purpose. They feel like they're worth nothing. Men who are in their late sixties that I've talked to, I can't provide. I can hardly walk because your worth has been in what you do. Mel I walk around, I take pictures whenever I see an elderly couple out, the wife is pet, she's moving around, but the husband is on a cane or a walker barely can move because his entire life he worked himself. He had to prove himself. And so many men can't even take naps Mel, when their wives are at home. I used to jump up from the nap when Nicole would come through the door.

 

Mel Robbins (00:18:53):

Well, because you're going to get in trouble if you're sleeping. Same way with Chris.

 

Jason Wilson (00:18:56):

But that's a problem. Yes. Because as a hardworking man, naps. Well you know this naps are essential. We're starting to see how it affects our mental health.

Jason Wilson (00:20:02):

Absolutely. When men say we're tired, it typically doesn't mean we need sleep. It means we want rest. There's a major difference between the two. Sleep is an unconscious state that provides physical and mental relaxation. Rest however, is a conscious state of freedom from anything that we, the soul.

 

Mel Robbins (00:20:26):

What is it that is making men and boys souls so weary?

 

Jason Wilson (00:20:35):

We're living performance based lives from everything we do, how we look, how much money we make, how successful you are. Even the misleading mantras. For instance, no pain, no gain. That's not a universal principle, meaning it can't be applied to everything in life. So as a sports analogy, if we had, you and I owned a football team and our top quarterback was injured towards Achilles, we wouldn't send them right back in the game and say, Hey, no pain, no gain. Men live their lives off of that misleading mantra. And then you wonder why truthfully, the more pain we're feeling, there is no gain. We're really living lives that are detrimental not only to us, but to our families. We're so geared on being so strong all the time that we don't even go see the doctor.

 

Mel Robbins (00:21:29):

Oh my God, that's so true. I was just on Chris's case because he's not able to sleep, but he never goes to the doctor. He won't allow himself to get sick.

 

Jason Wilson (00:21:38):

Why go your only value for what you do? I'm not loved. I'm only loved for what I can provide. Why do you think most men, you ask 'em, what do you want for Father's Day or your birthday? They say, I'm good. Nothing because they're receiving something for just being. And that's the biggest plight I see with so many men. And it gets me emotional because they wear the facade like everything's good. A lot of times families miss the forest for the trees. They miss the struggle because of the smile. When a man always says, I'm good, nothing's wrong. That's a warning. As men, if someone dies, we hug each other and say stay strong. So subconsciously we're programming each other that when we feel weak, we're not men and say, that weakness, that time is meant for us to rest and recover. Rest is not weakness or something that makes you milk. So as a man, it's a restoration of strength, but if we don't feel loved, only appreciated for what we do. And then what's even deeper? If we don't love ourselves to many of us, we feel that we are only going to find rest when we're resting in peace.

 

Mel Robbins (00:22:58):

You mean like when you're dead?

 

Jason Wilson (00:22:59):

Yes. So why go to the doctor? All I do is work. Why would I want to prolong my life here? A workhorse. I don't want to be a workhorse. I want to be a racehorse that can finish this journey. And along that journey, I'm taking care of myself, but most men are just workhorses. And when it's time for them to be done, they're often a pastor alone, suffering in their silence, not feeling valuable because their whole time existing, they were doing

 

Mel Robbins (00:23:33):

Jason. For somebody that's listening, they're like, I think that that is true about a lot of men, but not my son, not the guy I'm married to. He seems fine. He's okay. He is watching the ball game on the weekend. He's golfing, he hasn't lost his job. We're good. What do you want the person listening to know, particularly women about the truth?

 

Jason Wilson (00:23:59):

Ask him, how are you really doing intently? Look into his eyes and hold his hands. How can I support you? I received a call from a close friend just two days ago, and it still affects me right now. He had told me for the first time in his life, he looked at his gun and considered taking his life. And I said, why hadn't you called me? He says, man, I know you got a lot going on as well. And so as men we're so used to wearing the facade, when you see him, he's the most joyous man you'll ever meet. You would never think anything is wrong, but inside there's so much trauma. And because we taught that don't cry, stay strong, your family needs you. We're like, well, I need somebody. And then we believe that we're alone. That's the biggest lie we could ever believe because when you get men together and your husband Chris knows this very well, you put men in a room alone, they open up and start sharing the heaviness that they've been carrying. For instance, it doesn't have to even be trauma, but what about the father who has children who are autistic or have disabilities and he goes to work crying every day and no one knows the heaviness in his heart. A friend of mine was telling me his son was just trying to brush his teeth and the struggle of him just trying to do something that's so normal for many of us broke him down.

 

Mel Robbins (00:25:28):

And then you feel like a burden if you share it with somebody and then you got to hold it together because you can't be,

 

Jason Wilson (00:25:35):

When you say how you're doing, it's not like you're really intentional. It becomes just, Hey, hi. No, when I ask you how you're doing, I'm here for you. I've had people at restaurants, I say, how are you doing? Oh, you wouldn't want to know. Oh yes, I do. Tell me. And I give them the space.

 

Mel Robbins (00:25:54):

One of the takeaways that I have from listening to you so far is a very meaningful change that I could make is whether I'm talking to my son Oakley on the phone, who's off at college or I'm talking to Chris at the end of the day, instead of being like, how was your day?

Jason Wilson (00:26:25):

Absolutely. Holding, like Nicole and I exercise, our therapist taught us. It's just to sit in front of each other, knees touching, holding each other's hand and staring into our eyes. No communication. I actually do that exercise with fathers and sons when they're going through, I guess having some conflict, the father always is the first to start crying because words really don't express what we're feeling. The eyes, when you're looking into each other's eyes, you look into your son's eyes and as a father where you've made mistakes. And really his behavior is tied to a lot that we're doing to give the father the opportunity to show his love in a way without saying it. And the son sees like, whoa, my dad is super tough, but he must really love me. I must be really special for him to cry right now. And that's all we want. Our children just want to know that they're the apple of our eye and not the worm in the fruit.

 

Mel Robbins (00:27:24):

It seems at least I'll speak on my behalf, that the men in my life are either angry in the way they express their emotion or they're silent.

 

Jason Wilson (00:27:35):

Yes.

 

Mel Robbins (00:27:36):

Is that pretty typical?

 

Jason Wilson (00:27:38):

Those are safe. You can't be weak. You can't be soft. You can't be as simple as they say. If you're just angry, if you're silent, you look stoic. Now, oh, he must be strong because nothing ever phases him. And so men, anger is a very safe emotion to express when our feelings are hurt, we're angry, when we're sad, we're angry when we lose, we're angry. When our wives express that they want to spend more time with us because they miss us, we're angry. It's a surface emotion. That's why I tell men to dig deep. What are you really feeling? And I can compare it to masculinity, to the crayon analogy in this book, as men, we stay within the eight box of crayons, and we may pull out four women have 64.

 

Mel Robbins (00:28:32):

That's why we confuse you so much, Jason.

 

Jason Wilson (00:28:35):

But this is interesting. We were created for all of those emotions. They're not exclusive to you. That's true. It's there. But we've been hoodwinked by allowing society to define what a man is. And so when women are communicating with us, they may pull out our use analogy of the color violet. And all we have is purple. We can't meet the moment or even more complex issues. They ask for lime, and we're trying to put green and yellow together. And because men we're not used to expressing the gamut of emotions that we have as human beings, we can't meet the moment. And so I need to learn how to express more than my anger. If you don't trust me with the finances, it's not the anger I need to express. It's the hurt you make me feel. Because my father never trusted me with anything that required responsibility or my mother, because my brother who was murdered never really encouraged me to do anything that was risky. And so when a man can express his heart to his wife or the woman in his life, a mature woman, she drops her guard. And now we can communicate. Now, this is to the men and to the women. Women should listen as well.

 

Mel Robbins (00:29:51):

Oh, I'm listening. I'm hanging on every word, Jason.

 

Jason Wilson (00:29:53):

I tell men, listen, stop allowing the fear of her using it against you to prevent you from being a human being. As we were making this journey, Nicole, I share this story in the book. We were in a car at a grocery store parking lot, and this was the first time I expressed myself without yelling,

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:15):

How long had you been married?

 

Jason Wilson (00:30:17):

26 years.

 

Mel Robbins (00:30:19):

And the reason why I'm saying this, Jason, is because I speak for the person listening right now and probably the entire planet, and that I could just sit here and listen to you as if I were in the best sermon ever.

 

(00:30:32):

And the more I absorb what you are teaching us, there is no doubt in my mind that it's true. And I start to feel this sense of what do I do? What do I do? If you are a man who's hearing this and you're like, I scream at everybody. I am carrying so much from my past and from my father and my grandfather and I work, work, work. And if I'm not providing or I lost my job, I've lost my way. And I guess we're going to get to what to do, but I want to hear you validate that there's hope. Because if you were married to Nicole for 26 years and it took you that long before you could express yourself without the default of anger, there's hope for us all.

 

Jason Wilson (00:31:22):

Absolutely. And even right now, we still go through intense marriage therapy. And I was sharing the story. I'm glad you shared what you did because at that very moment, I had to make a decision because Nicole yells at me, says, you're the most emotional man I ever met and slams the door. So I'm like, I know she didn't just call me out like that, my manhood. And I said, you know what? I'm going to go back to being this man who comes in the house very dogmatic, unresolved anger, not patient with you, and I'm going to give you what you want. But that's when I realized like, wait a minute, I'm not doing this for you. See again, there it is with the manhood piece, we're used to doing everything for everyone else except us. I tell men to fight for yourself like you do others, you deserve this life. You deserve the freedom. I made the decision that day. I'm not going back. I'm not going back in that cell where there;s loneliness

 

Mel Robbins (00:32:28):

And Anger,

 

Jason Wilson (00:32:29):

Where I'm depressed and anger and suicidal thoughts and thinking about my father. I'm not going back. You are going to have to walk with me as this new man. And then to the wives, be gracious to yourself because Nicole had to unlearn what she had been deceived to believe a man is. So it's a process on both sides, and it's a journey you both can take.

 

Mel Robbins (00:32:51):

Let's say the person who's listening to you right now is recognizing I have a lot of issues with anger and I get so frustrated and I raise my voice and I do want to get control of this. Is there a tip that you have for how you can keep yourself peaceful and centered as you're talking to somebody that you care about, especially if it's about a subject that you might get testy around?

 

Jason Wilson (00:33:16):

I actually keep a picture of my wife and my phone, and because I know that majority of time when we're having disagreements, it's not necessarily the Nicole who's 51 speaking, but Nicole who was eight or 10 years old who's speaking during a time in her life where things were unstable. And so what this does, it keeps my heart tender towards Nicole. I look at this picture whenever we are having some discord or just a disagreement or a distance, and it softens my heart towards her and it makes me more present. And when I come home and we can talk about it, I want to talk to the little girl because it's always a cause and effect for every behavior. This picture is a reminder that we all have broken boys and broken girls inside. So I often tell wives to do the same, ask their husband for a picture of a time in their childhood when it was turbulent or they was experiencing a lot of hurt or trauma, and have the wife to download the picture in their phone. And then whenever they're having argument or feeling distance, she could look at the picture and say, Hmm, I wonder if this is little Dave coming out right now. Do I need to speak to that person? And so this is a great exercise that I do for my heart to make sure that as much as I am tough, that I am tender as well.

 

Mel Robbins (00:34:40):

I love this because Jason, what I'm realizing is I could use this with Chris. I can get so caught up in my emotions and I take it out on him that I forget who I actually married and that he's just a really good guy, and I love this. What are the surprising reasons that men are so angry that are important for the person listening to either understand or if the person listening is a guy and you're validating their experience for them to feel validated that they're not alone in experiencing this?

 

Jason Wilson (00:35:18):

I would say we want to be understood too. We want to be heard too. We don't like being made to feel that we're crazy for expressing a concern for something that's not a concern for you. Because if we were to do it, we'll be considered impatient or not loving. And as men, we just want to be heard. I can't tell you. Often I would share with Nicole about an issue I would have with our children. And as a loving mother, she takes sides with the children.

 

Mel Robbins (00:35:55):

Oh, I do this all the time. Jason, did Chris tell you to say this?

 

Jason Wilson (00:35:58):

Well, I'm glad I'm saying it. And so I had to tell her. I said, but you didn't hear me though. You didn't hear what hurt me. I acknowledge, I always acknowledge my wrong to my children. I'm not perfect. I just strive to be present. But you didn't hear my heart. You didn't hear how I felt when my son said this. And so as a wife, when you miss that, you'll say, as a husband, I can't give her my heart.

 

Mel Robbins (00:36:26):

Well, and I also, I think you just made me see for the first time that if your husband or your partner doesn't feel like you're with them, it means you're against them. And now all of a sudden, I didn't mean to, but I've just blocked you out of your own family because I've aligned myself with the interest of the kids in this opinion that I need to protect them from your anger versus taking a step toward you and allowing you to be heard and validated. And the same thing must be true with your son or your brother as well, because if you don't ever feel that your concerns or feelings are actually validated, and you're always bossed around with discipline and being told what you're doing wrong and the constant nagging and pointing out, which is more of the do, work, work, work, provide, provide, provide, whether it's grades or it's wins on the football field or whatever it may be.

 

Jason Wilson (00:37:28):

Or the honey-do list

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:29):

Or the honey-do list, like now you are being reduced to the actions that you take instead of your experience.

 

Jason Wilson (00:37:37):

And we're in it together. And there's nothing wrong with protecting the children, I protect.

 

Mel Robbins (00:37:43):

But you got to validate the concern.

 

Jason Wilson (00:37:47):

That's the key. So sometime the cold is the lion with, and I say, hold on cold. And it goes both ways. But to your point, you're absolutely correct is that, well, let me get outside of the mother right now and let me hear my husband's heart, because you want that as well. You don't want us to just focus on your words. You want us to hear what you're really saying. The most important things we miss, we need to focus on that. I often look at the things that haven't been said, her body language, Nicole's eyes, even how she's moving in communication. And it lets me know what I'm missing.

(00:39:19):

You've released and you've rested and you feel renewed. And Kris does not share anything confidential, but I've often asked him what is the biggest takeaway? And he said that universally that the men that he works with all say that they come last, that everybody's needs come before theirs. And I'm going to tell you something. When he first told me, I was like, that's complete bs. You guys are watching golf and you're watching the game and you go to work, but then you come home, you do whatever you want. And that was me rejecting a truth. And when I stopped myself and just said, okay, well let me just process this for a minute. Do I even know what Chris's needs are? Does he even know what they are? And it struck me because I'd love for you to turn to chapter nine in your book because you write about the exact same thing. It's on page 1 39. And I want you to read the first part of that so we can unpack this. And as you listen, you're either going to feel validated or I want you to have an open mind about the truth of this.

 

Jason Wilson (00:40:37):

One of the most significant obstacles preventing men from breaking free from emotional incarceration and evolving into comprehensive men is the inclination to suffer alone in silence. This suffering persists because men often believe nobody cares.

 

Mel Robbins (00:40:55):

See, I think that's probably the biggest problem. Do you think that's true?

 

Jason Wilson (00:41:00):

Absolutely. It ties to that. We'll say, I'm alone. You're not alone.

 

Mel Robbins (00:41:05):

Well, and I'll tell you something else. I'd say 95% of the men that either sign up for information about soul degree, which is Chris's retreats, and this is probably true of the work that you do and the seminars that you do are women who are wanting the men in their life to really get some support. And the men aren't thinking they necessarily need it. And I believe that we have an epidemic. I see this with our son who I'm fine, I got it, would rather just soldier on than burden somebody else and not even sure what he needs. And so I would love to have you teach us,

Jason Wilson (00:43:00):

As men, we have to own what we're doing as unhealthy. Meaning if we walk around with this looking like a superhero, we're going to keep being asked to do superhero things because superheroes don't sleep. They don't need a life. You don't need to go hang with your friends. We first have to remove the cape, leave it at the door, or better yet, put it in the trash and says, I'm a human being. I'm not to be treated like I don't need sleep. I'm impervious to emotional pain or anguish. And so as men, you have to first acknowledge that this life is not what I want.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:36):

Can I ask you a question?

 

Jason Wilson (00:43:37):

Sure.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:38):

I want you to give the man listening.

 

Jason Wilson (00:43:39):

Yes,

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:41):

An assignment.

 

Jason Wilson (00:43:42):

So what to do, I would tell them first, acknowledge that you're worth more than what you can do when you get there. And when I got there, I was able to say, I can't do it today. I'm sorry. You may be disappointed, Nicole, but I won't be able to paint the living room until next month. Sometimes the most responsible thing you can do, my brother, is to let things go undone so that you can get some rest. So that you can not only be present for your family, but to be present for yourself, to be able to look in the mirror and say, wow, I missed this side here. This is hurting me. This is my father neglecting me. I need to revisit this. Maybe I need to go see a therapist or a counselor or ette. I may need to go see my father because the last thing I would want to happen is for him to transition out of this place with unresolved, hurt, pain, and emotions and maybe trauma.

 

(00:44:39):

And so identify that you're worth more than what you can do. Also, your value resting actually is a confirmation that you're taking care of yourself. I don't say self-love, I say self-maintenance because we as men understand what it means to maintain something. So please start maintaining yourself and practice saying No and not now as hard as it can be as this superhero dad, superhero husband saying no is actually saying yes to yourself, and you deserve to be treated as a human. You just now have to fight for that in a way where it doesn't condemn or hurt those that you love, but yet you make a stance in protecting where you're going.

 

Mel Robbins (00:45:24):

I love that. And one of the things I want to highlight is that the first step to changing your life is admitting that you no longer are enjoying the way you're living it currently.

 

Jason Wilson (00:45:37):

I often tell men, you're not tired of living. You're tired of not living. And that's what men are dealing with. This isn't life. This isn't worth it. Everyone else gets to eat off the fruit of my labor, and all I do is labor.

 

Mel Robbins (00:45:53):

You've just heard the direct words from you about rest. What would you counsel a man to do next?

 

Jason Wilson (00:46:03):

It's time to delve deep. Let's go where you fear the most introspectively. Let's deal with the childhood trauma that keeps resurfacing the boy that arise in an argument with your wife. Let's help him heal. So many men are walking around with broken boys, and it's truly a sad sight to see because you can see it in their behavior fighting at sporting events, just the reaction, no response, just reacting to anything that pricks the skin. I tell men to be courageous and let, let's delve deep. Lets go where it will hurt, where you will feel what people would say unmasculine emotions. Let's deal with the sadness, the deep hurt of never really getting affirmation from your mother or affection. And I love what Chris is doing. The best place to start as a retreat, especially in an intensive one where you have to leave the phone and everything away and go off grid and really deal with yourself.

 

(00:47:05):

It's another great one called The Crucible, where I went on to heal from my father wound. And all throughout the entire time I had prayed, and God says, I'm going to show you who you are. I didn't think I was a leader because my father would curse me out for the simplest things. I would never do an interview like this if I hadn't dug deep and went to the areas in my life that caused the most chaos internally. So I tell men, run to that like you'll run to your family if someone's breaking into your home. You have to be okay with feeling. You have to be okay with being human. You have to be okay with revisiting the past so you can stop allowing your trauma to time travel and ruin your present. And that's what it's about. It's about you want to be masculine, let's do it. Let's fight right now. Let's be bold and face ourselves so that now you can become a comprehensive man. Now you can heal. Now you can be in the areas in your life where you're needed the most. And so when men say, how do I become this comprehensive man? I want it. I say, run to the areas that hurt you the most, that make you feel weak or not masculine or strong.