Make Yourself Recession-Proof: The New Rules of Work, Confidence, and Success in Uncertain Times

Carla Harris (00:40:44):

One of the most important things that I think women don't understand is that you do need a sponsor speaking for you in those rooms as you just articulated. Every single decision about your career will be made in a room behind closed doors where you are not present. Your compensation is going to be decided in a room where you're not present, your promotions are going to be decided in a room where you're not present and new opportunities are going to get doled out and you're not present. So somebody has to speak on your behalf in that room and I dubbed that person back in 1998 sponsor because that person is spending their currency. Sponsors do spend currency. They sponsor shows, they sponsor games. They spend their currency on your behalf to make sure that you're going to get the promotion, you're going to get the compensation, you're going to get the next great opportunity.

 

(00:41:38):

And women were told for so long that just keep your head down and work hard. And if you're doing that, we tend to overinvest as I call it in the performance currency. That's your deliverable. I call it that the performance currency. You're delivering that which is asked of you and a little bit extra, right? But you keep investing to the point of diminishing margin utility and what you should be doing is investing concurrently or very shortly thereafter in the relationships. There should not be a question in your mind as to who's going to spend some currency on your behalf in that also important meeting. So going back to your context about you're in the room where the things are getting said, somebody has to speak for you. Do you know who that is? So one of the things that I say to professionals is, especially when it's time for compensation decisions, especially when it's time for promotions, you need to ask yourself, who's going to spend some currency on me in that room?

 

(00:42:35):

And if you can't answer that question, then you know that you need to retreat from working so hard and invest in a sponsored relationship. And sometimes you have to exercise your power and you have to say, Mel, I know that you guys are going to be making those decisions about promotions and I need somebody to speak on my behalf. You know me, you know my work, you know the client feedback and I hope you feel comfortable spending a little currency on me behind closed doors. Now in a perfect world, you're having that conversation long before that afternoon where it's going to happen, but worst case scenario, you don't let the meeting happen in the room when you haven't said anything to anybody because then you're sitting there like this. And as the great Mike Tyson said, hope is not a strategy.

 

Mel Robbins (00:43:19):

I would love to dig just a little bit and unpack the sponsor topic and here's why whenever that advice is brought up and it is true because if you are not known, if your contributions are not known, if somebody cannot speak on your behalf about the value that you demonstrate, why on earth would you think that just like you're getting paid to show up and do the job, you get promoted for doing more or doing an exceptional job at it. And I think I made the mistake in my career early of just assuming that somebody else would notice that.

Carla Harris (00:44:18):

Let me unpack that a bit. So first of all, once you recognize that somebody has to speak on your behalf, now you have to ask yourself, "Well, who is that somebody for me? " And what I normally say to people is when you're thinking about a sponsor, here's how you pick out a sponsor. Number one, the sponsor needs to have a seat at the decision making table. Number two, they need to have some visibility into your work because if I go into the decision making room and I am pounding the table, mail ought to have this, mail ought to have that and everybody in that room knows that I don't work with mail. I have no credibility in that room. And number three, your sponsor needs to have some juice. They need to have some power in that room. Now, so what do you do?

 

(00:44:59):

For two weeks, you study your environment and you say to yourself, who has a seat at the decision making table? And if you can't figure that out, then you just simply ask someone. Mel, I walked around for years not understanding how decisions were being made, right? Everybody would talk about the promotion committee, the promotion committee, but it wasn't really clear to me who was on the promotion committee until one day I asked somebody and it was another female managing director. I was not yet an MD. And I said, "Talk to me about this promotion committee because this is an important year for me. I don't understand how this thing works. I've been hearing about it for years." And she said, "Well, it's a group of people. There are four or five people that are always there because they're on the operating committee or they're on the management committee.

 

(00:45:41):

And then there are different department heads that may or may not be the same from year to year." And not only did she tell me who they were, she actually drew a picture of the table and she said, "This one sits next to this one, this one sits next to it. This is how that works." And I couldn't believe I'd walked around for so long and such ignorance just thinking, "Just make sure you do a good job, make sure you do it. " Not really understanding that dynamic. So that's the first thing you should do. Who has a seat at a decision making table and how are these decisions made? The second thing is now you say, "Of the people that I know who have a seat at the table, who has visibility into my work?" And it doesn't have to be your direct boss, but it needs to be somebody that has some visibility into your work.

 

(00:46:23):

So it could be somebody who's in an adjacent group or something like that. And then now ideally you pick two or three people from that second sheet and then now you start thinking about ways that you can build a relationship and this is the easiest part. Most people think, "Oh, it's so hard to build a relationship in my environment and oh, by the way, I'm an introvert." And the way you build any relationship personally or professionally is just frequency of touch. Think about the people and it could be virtual touch to your point or it could be physical touch. So if you think about the people that you are close to in college or from previous experiences, how did you get close to them? Maybe you went to the football games together, maybe you always worked out together, but it was that touch that created the relationship.

 

(00:47:07):

So now with those people you want to build a sponsored relationship with, you start thinking about ways that you can interact and in a professional environment, it takes light touches. You don't even have to work with them. You can just, "You know what? I'm going down for my Starbucks and run today and I know you like it. How can I get it for you? " Or, "I'll fly if you buy whatever it is. " Or Fridays you say, "Hey, what you got going on for the weekend?" Mondays you say, "How was that thing that you did over the weekend?" Or, "Let me tell you what I did for the weekend." Or, "It's a town hall. You make sure you sit next to Mel, every town hall and say, so what question do you think this is going to be about? " Or, "You know what?

 

(00:47:45):

I got two questions. They're always begging for questions. Let me try this one on you and see what you think. " So anytime you find ways to engage, those light touches are the things that relationships are made of. Nirvana is when somebody says, "Mel, I'm going to make it happen for you. " So they're already defining themselves as a sponsor. But for many of us, you have to exercise your power, which is what I did. I went to somebody once I realized how important this was, big year for promotion and I said, "Listen, you and I both know somebody has to speak on my behalf behind closed doors and you know me, you know my work, you know the client feedback and I hope you feel comfortable sponsoring me because I think you'll do a terrific job on my behalf." And the person was sort of like, "Oh nah, hubby." But then he said yes and why was it an important conversation for me to have if he had told me no, he was going to have to tell me why and that would have been important data for me from which to make a decision.

 

(00:48:41):

But if he said yes, I trusted he'd get it done.

Carla Harris (00:49:05):

Yes.

 

Mel Robbins (00:49:06):

Could you talk about reinvention and also help us grab the opportunity of this exact moment that we're in.

 

Carla Harris (00:49:18):

Yes. And let me talk about the 3.0 and I have to give credit to my former chairman and CEO. We were having a conversation one day and I said, "Okay, it might be time for me to get to 2.0." And he said, "I will concede that you have done your thing. However, I don't call it 2.0, I call it 3.0." And I said, "Oh, do tell." He said, "1.0 is about your academic preparation to get to your career. 2.0 is hopefully about excelling in your career and then your family life. And 3.0 is all about you. " I said, "Okay, I will forever call it 3.0." And I've been calling it 3.0 since then and I am again going to change this word from reinvention to evolution because even the thing that you are becoming or that you aspire to be has been influenced by that which has already been and it has helped you to now crystallize this next thing that you're trying to get to and get to with excitement because you have the wisdom, the knowledge, the experience of the last 10, 15, 20, 25, or 35 years.

 

(00:50:25):

I think to get to that point in your life now where you can put it all together and again, don't be afraid of this moment because you have assets that you didn't have 35 years ago. You have relationships, you have learned skills, you have experience and the thing is to not get tethered or weighed down by the things that you thought were hard because those things just came to teach you something. I tell folks, when you have tough lessons, they're just coming to teach you something. So stop and make sure that you are being real clear about extracting the lesson because as you know, when life comes to teach you a lesson, you don't pass the test, you will repeat the class.

 

Mel Robbins (00:51:05):

And the class is harder next time.

 

Carla Harris (00:51:06):

That's right. It's coming again, right? So now you think about this next thing with a new kind of excitement and you go towards it as you are evolving to become something else.

 

Mel Robbins (00:51:17):

Well, on this topic of evolving, we have a question from a listener whose name is Melissa who is in the middle of, as you put it, evolving. And I would love to hear your thoughts and specific advice.

 

Melissa (00:51:34):

Hi, Mel. I'm 50 years old, going to be 51 next week. I have been at the same position for 22 years. I'm an executive director for a nonprofit. Unfortunately, we've lost our funding and so we'll be closing and I need to find a new job. For me, my question is, how do you get past feeling like you are not qualified for anything? I've been doing the same thing for so long. Will I really know how to do all of the new stuff? How do I work my way out of that to feel the confidence, to look for a new job, to feel like I'm worthy for whatever position I'm applying for and not question myself when I go for a job interview. Really even just press send on submit the application.

 

Carla Harris (00:52:29):

I love, love, love your question. Now let's look at your facts. You have 22 years of experience and you've been doing this for 22 years and you're an executive director. My guess is that you didn't start in as an executive director. You worked your way up to that position. And let's talk about your facts. One, you know how to ascend. Two, you know how to learn new things and master those things. Three, you know how to manage and more importantly, lead other people because if you've been in a leadership position for as long as you've been in a leadership position, that means people are inspired by you. They like working with you. You know how to work with new people and inspire and motivate those new people. Those are general skills that I'm arguing that you have because I have not met you, but those are things that would be applicable to any leadership position no matter whether it's going to be in a nonprofit or a for- profit.

 

(00:53:25):

Now your story becomes, I have 22 years experience in a nonprofit. As you know, working in a nonprofit is not a very easy thing to do and in many cases you have to be able to produce and also deliver for your constituents without a lot of resources. So I would argue that I'm very resourceful and I know how to deliver for my constituents on very little. I also can inspire and motivate people because as you know, it's not easy to recruit and more importantly to retain really good talent in a nonprofit. And many of my team have been with me for the last eight, 10 or 12 years. We have evolved as an organization. We have gone from A to B to now C. So I obviously also know how to lead throughout a transformation and I know how to take people into new territories and inspire them to do things that they didn't even think that they can do.

 

(00:54:15):

So now in the role in your organization where transformation is required, innovation is required, motivating and leading a team is required for this particular seat to be successful. I'm highly confident that I'll be able to deliver for you and I'm excited to be having this conversation with you. Melissa, that's your script. Go get them.

Carla Harris (00:55:40):

So here's what I'll say. If you find yourself in a situation where you've been laid off, I'm going to tell you not to put on the jersey of failure and here's why. Sometimes layoffs happen when they have nothing to do with the individuals, they have everything to do with the income statement and that the organization just cannot retain the resources frankly that it needs in order to compete. The second thing that I'm going to tell you is that you might be in a situation where the universe has been telling you for a long time that you were ready for your new challenge, but you didn't want to see it or worse, you were afraid of it. So now you've been put in a position where you have to go for it. And remember this, if a situation of any kind has been delivered to you, you are ready for it.

 

(00:56:28):

So maybe you didn't make the election to cut the umbilical cord yourself, but the universe knows that you are ready. So I'm going to ask you to trust it and act as if you are ready, even if in your heart you're not feeling like it, what would you do if you were going to act like a courageous person and go get it? What would that look like? So for now, I'm going to tell you to play at it and practice until you realize that in fact you are ready and then I'm going to tell you to go get it with some conviction and some confidence.

 

Mel Robbins (00:57:01):

That is brilliant. Act as if it was delivered to you right now because you are ready for it right now.

 

Carla Harris (00:57:12):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (00:57:13):

That is a massive reframe. I don't know who said this, but I constantly think about this thing that for somebody who always figures it out, you're worrying an awful lot, right?

 

Carla Harris (00:57:23):

Yeah.

 

Mel Robbins (00:57:24):

That the past has shown you that you've always figured it out. So if you have this delivered to you right now, the universe is telling you time to figure it out.

 

Carla Harris (00:57:34):

Yeah, it's your data.

 

Mel Robbins (00:57:36):

It's your data. It's your data. You also tell women to pick three adjectives that you want people to describe you by. Why do you recommend that we do this in our careers?

 

Carla Harris (00:57:52):

Yes. I wrote about this, Mel, in my first book, Perception is the Copilot to Reality. How people perceive you will directly impact how they deal with you. And I wrote this because so often as we say, first impressions are your last impressions, but what we don't say is that everybody comes to an encounter with some baggage. And so therefore if you have baggage about who I am, it will color your lens and it may also impact what you hear because of what you see. And so if you want to make sure that people see your strengths or they see you as you see yourself, you have to be thoughtful about what are the words you want them to use. And what I also suggest is that those words are consistent with what's valued in your seat and the way that you can train people to think about you the way you want them to think about you is to think of the three adjectives that are consistent with who you really are authentically, but think of the three adjectives that are valued in your seat.

 

(00:58:49):

Where they intersect is how you must behave consistently around those adjectives because now you will train them to talk about you in the way that you want them to talk about you when you're not in the room. And the other way that you do that is that you use this language in your environment when you're talking about yourself. So the story that I love to tell is that I had a senior manager director who was big guy, big voice, that kind of dude in the environment and he's like, " I think you're smart, you work hard, but I don't think you're tough enough for this business. "And as you might imagine, as a woman on Wall Street, the last thing you want to be thought of is not tough. And then I thought," Well, surely he's pulling my leg. What's this guy smoking? "And then I thought," Whoa, wait a minute, Carla, maybe he's not kidding and maybe the rest of the organization doesn't see you that way.

 

(00:59:34):

And like I said, that's the last thing you want to be though of, but here's the most important part of the story. I always thought about myself as being tough. So the fact that he was now questioning whether or not I was tough enough was a wake up call that the real Carla Harris wasn't showing up anymore. Somewhere I had lost my confidence, somewhere I'd lost my voice and now it was creating a competitive disadvantage for me. I decided for 90 days I walked tough, talked tough, Eat tough, drink tough, use tough in my language. And sure enough, in about 90 days it worked because I would say things like, oh, you want me to go in and listen to that CEO's presentation and it's not even my deal? Well, tell me a little bit about the CEOs. Is this guy sensitive? Does he have a thin skin?

 

(01:00:16):

Because I'm tough. I don't want to hurt about his feelings. And I kept saying it over and over and sure enough, in about 90 days people were like, "We're going to see Carla Harris. You know she's so tough. Oh boy, you interview with Carla Harris? Oh, she's so tough." But you have to help people think about you in the way you want them to think about you because they just may not see you that way and you can't take it personally. They don't see you. So you have to make sure that you're seen and that you're thought of in the way that you want to be thought of.

 

Mel Robbins (01:00:47):

Well, I also want to make sure that I highlight something that you said that I think is very important. If you're going to pick your three words, maybe they're confident, prepared, smart, or maybe it's you're tough, you're powerful, you're clear. Pick those three words. But what I love that you said that I want to make sure that as you're listening to Carly, you do not miss is do not do that just in meetings. If you want to be seen as confident and serious and powerful, make sure you're not joking around in the lunchroom, make sure you're not rolling in late because you don't take things seriously. You got to act like those three things from the moment you walk in the door and in every email you send.

 

Carla Harris (01:01:35):

Your behavior has to be consistent.

 

Mel Robbins (01:01:38):

Yes.

 

Carla Harris (01:01:38):

That is the key word, consistency. Because if you're inconsistent in that behavior, that perception will not be solidified.

 

Mel Robbins (01:01:47):

Correct. And so I appreciate that you pointed out that pick your three words but also look at the environment that you're in and is there an overlap and am I consistent in every interaction when I'm showing up? Because that's how I build a reputation by deciding what do I want my reputation to be and then acting consistently. I love that.

 

Carla Harris (01:02:08):

And make sure it's you. It's authentic. Don't make it up. Don't say, "I want to be this, this and this. " But that's not you because you won't be able to deliver that. And that's why it's important that you are authentic about the decisions and the jobs that you choose. Because if you don't like doing numbers, why are you thinking about going to a quantitative or a financial position? If you're not a creative person, why are you trying to do marketing? So pick the things that are consistent with who you are and the things that are valued in the seat, that's where you have a shot to maximize your success.

Leigh (01:02:52):

Good day, Mel. I've been a stay-at-home mom for the last 12 years and I really want to get back out there and start working, but I feel like I'm dealing with a lot of nervousness, a lot of lack of confidence. I feel like I've been at home while others have been studying, making connections, working their way up the ladder. I want to let me get out there and start chasing my dream, but I'm dealing with a lot of self-doubt. I want to crush that self-doubt. What advice would you give me?

 

Carla Harris (01:03:26):

So here's what I'd say to Lee. Lee, here's how you crush your self-doubt. I want you to take a look at your own data. You've been a stay at home mom for the last 12 years, what does that tell me? That tells me you know how to deal with the unpredictable. That tells me that you are extremely resourceful. That tells me that you work very well under pressure. That tells me you're solution oriented. You're a problem solver. These are all the things that are valued in any environment. So when you talk about yourself, even though your experience and your context might be at home and as a mother, you can talk about the fact that I'm a problem solver. Let me tell you the three things that happened in the same day and let me tell you how I resolved that situation. Let me tell you how I was really resourceful when A, B, and C happened and I didn't have any of the things that you would've needed like DE&F in order to deal with that.

 

(01:04:19):

But let me tell you how I shifted in order to make that happen. Let me tell you how I built relationships as I started to put my kids into school or as I had to build relationships with this counselor, with this play date team. All of these things taught me how to be a team player, how to be a leader, how to manage situations again, how to be results oriented, how to be problem solver. And so there's nothing that I can't learn and learn it quickly. Now Lee, that's your data. That's not mine. So I want you to listen to this over and over and look at yourself in the mirror and say those things about yourself because those are your facts. And the more that you can embrace that, the more you can connect the dots between that and what it is you'd like to do and draw the parallels.

 

(01:05:03):

Go get them, Lee.

Carla Harris (01:05:14):

Yes. So if you're walking into your annual review for the first time, what you should have done ahead of time is your own report card. You are not a taker in that conversation. You are a participant and it doesn't matter who goes first. So your boss may go first with a lot of things good and bad about what your year has looked like. And then you should follow up and say, "Wow, that's some really interesting data and I really appreciate the feedback. When I walked in here, here's how I was thinking about my year. And here are the things that where we intersected and here are the things that are different. So I'd like to spend the last 15 or 20 minutes talking about those things that are different and what's reality and what might have been a perception and what I can do to close the gap between the two." Or they say to you, "Mel, what do you think about your year?" And then you start off, "Well, here's what I think about my year.

 

(01:06:05):

Here are the things that I knocked the cover off the ball. I exceeded expectations. Here are the things where I think I was right on the money, and here are the things that I did okay, but I want to work on those things as I think about the next year." But remember, one third of that conversation should be about what you have done. Two thirds should be about what you are prospectively going to do for the organization and oh, by the way, what resources you need in order to successfully prosecute that. So it's really about understanding that this is your evaluation and that you have the power in this discussion. And for so long and for so often, I would say many of us go in and we're takers. We're like, "Oh my gosh, what are they going to say?" And one of the other things that I say is that if you are looking for a promotion, then you might want to start asking for it a year before you think you're ready.

 

(01:06:54):

Because when you say Mel, I'm really looking forward to getting promoted at the end of 27. If Mel has no thoughts that that's going to happen, she's going to say, "Oh, why do you think that? " Now you give your data and she goes, "Well, I'm not sure you should be thinking A. You shouldn't be thinking B. And you have C on the list, but C doesn't matter." But at the end of that conversation, you're now going to have a really strong prescription of what you need to deliver in the next fiscal year so that you're having a different conversation at the end of the year about your promotion.

(01:07:41):

You ought to know what the market value of the seat is. So when you go into that interview and you crush it and you get that offer and let's say the market value of the seat is between 200 and 250 and they say, "Oh, well, Mel, we're delighted to give you this offer. Your conversation is going to be $150,000 a year." Now you say, "Wow, I'm so excited to have the offer and I agree with you. I think I'm going to come in and knock the cover off the ball." However, I'm not in a position to take this offer because I did do my homework coming in and the market value of the seat is between 200 and 250 and I'm sure you are expecting me to knock the cover off the ball and to give you excellence in my deliverable. And so surely you wouldn't want to pay below market for that, which I'm going to deliver.

 

(01:08:24):

And if the offer was between 200 and 250, I would hit that bid, right? I would hit that bid. Yeah, I'm prepared to do that. But the problem is if you take the 150, then you're sending some poor messages. The first is that you negotiate poorly. The second is that you'll take anything. The third is that they're going to be able to continuously pay you behind the market value of the seat and you're going to get frustrated pretty quickly when you realize that either people who are already there are making a lot more money than you or to replace your excellent work, they're going to have to pay somebody 50% above what they're paying you to come in. So you get yourself out of that situation by going into that situation knowing what the market value of the seat is. Now, let's say you didn't do well and you've been in the job.

 

(01:09:14):

Now it's time for you to ask for a raise. Now you go in and we'll just call him Steve. Now you say, Steve, I'm so pleased with this evaluation and I'm proud to say for the last three years I've knocked the cover off the ball and I'm pretty confident that I'll continue to be able to do that. But I've done some homework here and the market value of this seat is between X and Y and I'm making X minus B. So I'd like to understand what we can do in order to get me somewhere between X and Y and preferably not at X because if I'm giving you A quality work, I should be getting A quality pay. Steve says, "Well, you know it's tight budget, we're laying off people. " Then you say, "Steve, I'm not happy with that answer. I'm going to continue to deliver at the highest level, but you and I need to revisit this in the next quarter to figure out how I get there because that's not going to work for me.

 

(01:10:13):

" Now you're not threatening that you're going to leave. You have put Steve on notice and if you're that good, Steve is very clear that if you leave and have to put somebody else in your seat, they're going to have to pay them more. So why let a great resource leave that you know can continue to knock the cover off the ball by underpaying them? And if by the way, Steve continues to make that decision, then you got a different decision to make.

 

Mel Robbins (01:10:36):

In that instance, isn't that also a giant sign to start looking around?

 

Carla Harris (01:10:41):

Absolutely. Absolutely, Mel.

Mel Robbins (01:11:20):

I need you to hear that as you're listening, that even though it's a tough economy, companies are always looking for talent. And what do you want us to know about looking for a job or making a pivot in an economy and in the reality that we're in right now?

 

Carla Harris (01:11:41):

Yes. In a tough economy like we're in right now where a lot of things are shifting, there are two real opportunities. One, you continue to network and have conversations with people because as I said, folks are always looking for great talent, but two, think about the roles within your own organization that might need to be created. Sometimes there are opportunities within your own organization where they need somebody to do X, but they haven't taken the time to figure out what that might look like. But if you have had an opportunity to say, "We really could use somebody to do this. And if that person was doing this, it might help us make more money. It might help us be more efficient. It might help us train people differently. It might help us be more competitive in the marketplace." Now you have an argument to somebody within your organization and you say, "What I'm doing is fine, but you and I both know we need somebody to do X and here's what I think that might look like and here's why it might be great for the organization to allow me to do that thing." And oh, by the way, here's where it should be compensated because when you're creating something new, many times people don't know how to think about that and if they don't know how to think about it, they don't know how to value it.

 

(01:12:51):

So you need to come to the table with the argument as to what the market value should be for that role and why it's good for the organization to allow you to do that new thing because everybody needs a why. Even an organization, which you can argue is an institution, everybody needs a why. So when you sell it, you have to sell the why. If it's new, you have to educate and sell. If it's just the next version of something, then you just attach yourself to that which has been and say, "This is now the 3.0 or the 4.0 of that thing."

 

Mel Robbins (01:13:24):

Carla, what do you want women to know about technology and in particular AI right now?

 

Carla Harris (01:13:30):

Yes. It's a new frontier and nobody understands it, has the playbook can be prescriptive. So you get an opportunity to learn alongside everybody else. Talk to your friends about how they're using artificial intelligence. You'd be surprised what you learned. I was just sharing with someone, I created a new workout program and a new diet program. I said, "I want to lose 10 pounds in four weeks. What does that look like? " And I shared that with somebody and somebody said, "Well, I'm talking to a new endocrinologist and I asked artificial intelligence, if you're onboarding a new doctor to your team, what are the 10 questions that you should ask?" Somebody else said, "Oh yeah, I was told I had this, this, and this, and I was completely paralyzed, didn't know what to do with that. " So I went to artificial intelligence and said, "What is that?

 

(01:14:15):

" So the more you share with respect to what you're doing with it and how you're using it, the more you learn from other people where they are, but don't think of yourself as behind and for Pete's sake, don't be afraid. The thing is here, nobody invited it in, but they're at the party, they're dancing. Now the question is, are you going to sit against the wall and you're going to boogie too?

 

Mel Robbins (01:14:37):

I would love to have you talk about how specifically women can use AI as a resource at work when they are tired and fatigued because one of the things I am excited about is the fact that so many of us are constantly overperforming. We don't have an assistant, don't have anybody we can give it to. Our coworkers are burdened. And so I see it as this incredible resource if you learn to use it to give you time back.

 

Carla Harris (01:15:10):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (01:15:11):

So can you talk though a little bit about how could you think about using this tool if you're burnt out, if you're tired and you still need to show up for work in your family?

 

Carla Harris (01:15:23):

Yes. So one of the things you can think about, especially if you are working in an environment where you do not have an assistant, there is something now called an agent. And if you don't know how to build an agent, as I asked the technology professional, I said, "How do I learn how to build an agent?" They said, "Ask artificial intelligence. How do you build an agent?" So stop me straight in my tracks, Mel. All right, now you can say, "Summarize these 20 emails for me. " So you don't have to read all 20 emails. I have a good friend who created an agent to go through all of her emails and to pick out the five most important ones. Now in the beginning, you might have to go behind it to make sure it's not making mistakes, but you do that once or twice and now the thing is working for you because it learns from you every time you do it.

 

(01:16:04):

Let's say you are burdened because you have to make travel arrangements all the time. Now you can have the agent pick out for you what are going to be the most competitive fairs for you and how to actually think about not only the flights, the time, but what hotels you ought to use for this new city that you're going to. Let's say you have to give a presentation on something you've never done before. When I was getting one of our technology professionals to show me how to use artificial intelligence, I said, "I don't know a lot about this particular thing." And I said, "Write me a presentation on this particular thing, 15 pages that was a primer." So there's so many things you can do. Now, let's talk about how it saves you time. Somebody asked me to do a fireside chat with an author.

 

(01:16:46):

I hadn't had any time and I was sent the book literally the day before I had to do the fireside chat and I said, just for kicks, because I was planning to get on the plane and go through it. And I said, "Give me the summary of the chapters of this book, boom, summaries. If you were doing a fireside chat with this person, give me three questions from every chapter." Boom. It was less than 10 minutes and I would've spent seven hours or the six hours that it took to get to the coast trying to cram down that book and create some questions. Now again, now that I had all this newfound time, I could say, "Oh, this chapter looks interesting. That chapter looks interesting." So then I could pick and choose which ones I was really going to go deep and invest in and be able to do it.

 

(01:17:33):

And oh, by the way, I was only doing the fireside chat for 30 minutes. I would've invested seven hours of learning for 30 minutes of delivery. I'll let your listeners do their own math on that.

 

Mel Robbins (01:17:47):

Another way that I think it's really beneficial to use it is a lot of times people, I'm going to use your word taker. You sit back and you're waiting for feedback on something and there's a bottleneck because the person who's supposed to give you feedback has so much else going on, you can use it to make your own work better. You can use it to give you feedback when you cannot get time with the person whose feedback you're waiting on.

 

Carla Harris (01:18:13):

Absolutely.

 

Mel Robbins (01:18:13):

I mean, it's just endless. What do you want to say to a woman who is just like, "I'm not using it. " And there are very real reasons to be afraid. There are regulations that need to put in place. There are very real concerns that we need to address about the environment and about the impact it's going to have long term That is all true and to the woman who's just like absolutely not.

 

Carla Harris (01:18:40):

No. I had a friend who was like that who was like, "Nope, AI up social media. Nope, I'm not doing any of that. " And then I said to her, I said, "Listen, you can't afford to not engage with artificial intelligence. It's here to stay and it's not going anywhere and you also don't want to be left behind. So this is something that is going to continue to grow and if you don't want to become a fossil, you have to at least start to play around with it. " So I convinced her to go to a couple of conferences where they actually had breakout sessions on artificial intelligence and boy did she come back a convert, playing with it every day, using it every day. I submit to you that maybe it does need regulation. I submit to you that it's not always right. I submit to you that there are some hallucinations, but you can't afford to wait until all of that is ironed out before you engage because otherwise you're going to find yourself just a year from now feeling like you can't engage in the economy that we're living in because everybody's using it for this or for that.

 

(01:19:46):

So you are not too young or too old to start playing around with it.

 

Mel Robbins (01:19:52):

I love that you said you're going to be a fossil because I agree you will be if you let this pass you by. And I appreciate that like me, you're acknowledging the problems that need to get sorted out, but in the meantime, using your phrase, "In the meantime, you better jump on the dance floor." What are the rules around how you deal with a work environment that is whether you call it toxic or just insanely stressful or you deal with a boss who tends to be a little narcissistic in their personality style or eruptive or emotionally immature, whatever label you want to put on it, how do you show up to that kind of job without losing both your confidence, your sanity or your job?

 

Carla Harris (01:20:40):

Yes. So first of all, you should be very clear that the reason that you are in that environment is that you are that good. So nobody should make you second guess your confidence because if you weren't good, you wouldn't still be in the environment. That's number one. Number two, now you need to go back and think about the reasons that you went into that work environment, right? Maybe the work environment has changed because nobody walks into a toxic work environment because they want to. So either it wasn't like that when you joined or you really didn't see it or you didn't do the due diligence. So now let's say you're in it and you say, "Oh my gosh, I didn't do the due diligence." Now you say, "Is this an environment where there's something for me to get? Are there skills here that I think I can get really quickly?

 

(01:21:24):

Are there experiences that I think I can get really quickly? And if so, let me focus myself on this so that I can get this and put yourself on a timeline. I'm a big fan of having a timeline because otherwise it's easy to get distracted, to get comfortable, and you look up in five years of gone and you still there. And oh, by the way, now your confidence has been eroded, or you have become somebody that you don't like. " So once you figure out whether or not there's something you can get in a short period of time, you get it and at the same time, you start building your relationships externally so that you have an off ramp in that environment. Now, let's say that it just changed. So no shame in that game. It changed because there were a lot of leadership changes or whatever.

 

(01:22:04):

Same thing. You start using your power to build relationships to get yourself an off ramp. But the risk that you run in staying in a toxic environment for too long is that unconsciously it will erode your power and it will erode your confidence because I don't care who you are, Mel, if I keep telling you you're nothing, you're nothing, you're nothing, you're nothing, even if you're strong and you're powerful and you go into that, you start to absorb that. And somewhere along the way, you will start to question whether you are all that and you'll start to think that perhaps you're not anything. So you got to get yourself out of that once you have extracted what you want out of that environment.

 

Mel Robbins (01:22:47):

I love the advice of creating a timeline and one of the reasons why I love that is because it's very easy when you have a mortgage or you have daycare or you got the bills that you're paying that you start to tell yourself that, "Well, I need this job to pay my bills." And then you start convincing yourself that this is the only job and there is no other job. And if it's kind of toxic, you're probably working 80 hours a week and feel like you don't have time to do anything else. So what I love about the timeline is the second you are honest with yourself and you say, "I don't want to work in a place like this. " Yes, there is something I'm going to get, but I'm giving it a timeline. You have now stepped out of it and said, "I'm going to use it instead of it using me.

 

(01:23:33):

"

 

Carla Harris (01:23:33):

I'm using my power.

 

Mel Robbins (01:23:34):

Yes.

 

Carla Harris (01:23:34):

That's right.

 

Mel Robbins (01:23:35):

Brilliant, brilliant. Carla, given that you have a huge public job, you sit on multiple boards, you have two young kids, you are an international speaker, a wife, an author. How do you think about the boundaries between work and life? What are some of the rules that you've set up for yourself or how do you get this all in harmony?

 

Carla Harris (01:24:02):

Sure. It's all life, Mel. It's all life. And so the question is, how do you divide your day and your time in a way that's going to give you the greatest return? There were many days that Morgan Stanley might've gotten 90% of it, but I got a big return out of that investment and maybe my social life or my playlife or my partying or my hanging out with friends only got 10%, but I got some of that because life has to be balanced and some days work is not going to bring you joy. Some days your family or your personal life is not going to bring you joy. But if you have something in that day that's bringing you joy, then that is what creates the balance. And there are other times where Carla the mom is front and center. Carla, the board director is front and center.

 

(01:24:47):

For me, it's all Carla. So it's a matter of how do I divide the pie on any given day. And I don't keep score that maybe three days out of seven it's all the professional piece or four days out of seven it's the director or whatever. I make sure that I'm fully present wherever I am. So when I'm with my girls, it's all mommy, it's all mommy. Now I may be using skills from Carla the banker. I may be using skills from Carla the director. I may be using skills from Carla the singer, but it's all mommy. So I pick the tools and the skills and the capabilities from all of the Carlas to be fully present and most impactful when it's Carla the speaker that's showing up or Carla the author.

 

Mel Robbins (01:25:36):

What do you say to the woman who's really struggling with guilt?

 

Carla Harris (01:25:41):

I say, first of all, ask yourself why you have guilt because many women, especially women who are mothers, have guilt that they're not being present for their kids. And I say, "Make sure that you are evaluating your life against your report card and not somebody else's." Because sometimes we think we are failing as a mother or a parent because we're not at every soccer game or we didn't make that phone call or, "Oh my gosh, we forgot that play date." And sometimes we're evaluating ourselves, as I said, against somebody else's report card and not what matters to our family. So I say when mother said, "Well, I didn't make one soccer game." I said, "Did you ask Johnny whether he cared about the soccer game, whether or not you showed up, maybe he rode the bench the whole season and he didn't want you to see him riding the bench." Or maybe you say, "Mommy's going to make five of your games.

 

(01:26:34):

I know you got 10, but I'm going to make five." You pick the five and then you move heaven and earth to try to get there to that five. And if you miss one, then you got to figure out what's going to make Johnny happy and forgive you on that one. But you can't keep carrying the baggage, right? Figure out what success looks like, just like I would figure out what success looks like for a board meeting, figure out what success looks like in this engagement with your kid right now. When I leave here, I know that I'm going home to do put to bed duty. And for my 10-year-old, that means one thing. For my six-year-old, it means another, but I know what's going to make her happy and I know what's going to make her happy and that's what I'm going to deliver when I get home.

 

(01:27:16):

So you have to define that for yourself. There's no such thing as feeling guilt about that unless you are measuring it against something that somebody else told you was important as opposed to what's important for your context.

 

Mel Robbins (01:27:33):

Carla, you have poured so much into us today. I cannot wait to have this episode release across the globe. And since there was so much that we covered, I would love to have you just think about of everything that we talked about, if the person listening does just one thing, like the most important thing to do out of everything that you've talked about today, what is that one thing?

 

Carla Harris (01:28:04):

We give up power so easily and unconsciously as women. And we give so much credit to other people that don't deserve it. We just assume they're smart. We just assume they're accomplished because they're sitting in a seat that we might aspire to sit in, but we know that there are lots of ways people get to a seat that had nothing to do with their capability or their intelligence. So what are you doing?

 

Mel Robbins (01:28:32):

Carla Harris, what are your parting words?

 

Carla Harris (01:28:35):

Own your power, give yourself the chance to win and don't count yourself out. And thank you, Mel, for this opportunity. I love, love, love being able to hopefully give prescriptive advice that will help other people. So thank you for the opportunity to do that.

 

Mel Robbins (01:28:50):

You are so welcome. Thank you for saying yes. Thank you for all that you do. And I know that this is going to help so many people. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for spending time listening to something that will 1000% improve your life and your career. And I hope that you really take to heart what Carla told you. You have power. Use it. We are in a moment as scary as it may feel right now for you of tremendous opportunity and since the playbook is out the fricking window, why not you? Why not step onto the field? And I really hope after you listen to this, you will. In fact, listen to it on repeat because then I know you will. And in case no one else tells you this, as your friend, I wanted to be sure to say that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life and you just got a new playbook, the 3.0 playbook on how to do that.

 

(01:29:50):

So go do it. Alrighty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit play. And thank you for watching all the way to the end and you're going to love this next video and I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play.