Reinvent Yourself At Any Age: Ina Garten Shares the Secret to Transforming Your Life

Ina Garten (00:12):

Do what you think is fun. If it's fun, you'll be really good at it.

Mel Robbins (00:15):

But today you're getting the secret recipe to her success and reinvention.

Ina Garten (00:22):

This is what I want to do. And if somebody wants to try and stop me, knock yourself out. It's not going to happen.

Mel Robbins (00:38):

It is such an honor to meet you.

Ina Garten (00:40):

It's so nice to meet you too.

Mel Robbins (00:41):

I have cooked so many of your recipes.

Ina Garten (00:45):

Have you? How

Mel Robbins (00:46):

Wonderful. Have I? Oh my gosh. Your books are dog eared and bind broken and stained as every good cookbook should be.

Ina Garten (00:55):

I love when I say a cookbook that looks like it's been dipped in vinaigrette, then I know it's been used.

Mel Robbins (01:01):

It has definitely been used. I'm so excited to have a chance to sit down with you because you are such a great storyteller. You have a remarkable life. And I also know whether you think this or not, you have a lot of wisdom to share.

Ina Garten (01:16):

Well, I hope so. Thank you. For

Mel Robbins (01:18):

Sure. For sure.

Ina Garten (01:19):

Thanks Mel.

Mel Robbins (01:20):

I'd love to start by just asking you if the person takes everything to heart that we're about to talk about, what might change about life?

Ina Garten (01:30):

I find that the really scary things I've done have been the making of my life. And so it's really worth doing because otherwise I think we all follow where our lives go, but we don't make deliberate decisions. And when you make a deliberate decision, it's in the furtherance of what you love to do and it's really important to do. Otherwise, you're not in control. And I think having some agency with your life is so important.

Mel Robbins (02:01):

I agree with you. And there was something about what you just said that I want to make sure I highlight because already you're dropping takeaways and that is you said it's being deliberate in furtherance of what you love doing.

Ina Garten (02:28):

Thank you, Mel. Thank you.

Mel Robbins (02:29):

My mother-in-law bought it for me because she knows that I'm such an enormous fan of yours. And I read it furiously one rainy afternoon in Vermont. And I love where the story in the memoir begins because you're 30 years old and never in a million years would I have thought you worked for the Office of Management and Budget at the White House.

Ina Garten (02:50):

And nuclear energy policy. Don't forget that.

Mel Robbins (02:53):

Who was that? I don't know. You tell me. I have no idea what nuclear energy policy is. And on page four, you write, "There has to be something more fun than this. The only good thing about having a low threshold for boredom is that I've always been willing to take crazy risks just to get out of that miserable state. In my bureaucratic job, I was just part of the larger process, but I wanted to be the process, to do my own thing, either in real estate or in the food business, and for better or for worse, to make my own decisions and mistakes." I'd love for you to put us right at that scene where you're 30 years old and you're kind of bored with your job because I think we've all had that moment, but what you do in that moment is what determines your life.

Ina Garten (03:48):

Well, I was sitting in my office and I had been at Office of Management and Budget for four years at that point, and I was feeling like I work really hard. Sometimes we'd pull all nighters to make sure what the president needed for his budget or for some legislation was taken care of. But literally I felt like nothing had happened and nothing changed. And so why am I working so hard at something where nothing's happening? And that was in the 1970s. And so I was reading the New York Times and I just happened for the first time in my life see the business opportunity section where people advertise dry cleaners and head shops and coffee shops. And I saw this small ad for business for sale and it was a specialty food store in a place I'd never been. And I though, God, that sounds like fun.

Mel Robbins (04:41):

That was the moment?

Ina Garten (04:42):

That was the moment. Yeah. I thought that just sounds like more fun than what I'm doing here. And so I went home that night and I said to Jeffrey, "My job's boring. I don't feel like I do anything. I work really hard. You have a sense that what you're doing is going to the president, so it doesn't just evaporate into the air, but nothing really happens and I want something to happen and I'm never going to be the head of this organization. They are never going to choose a girl to be the head of OMB. So what am I doing here?" And he said to me, the most important thing, he said, "Do what you think is fun. If it's fun, you'll be really good at it." And I thought that's a really, really important thing to remember that whatever you do without thinking about it, just because you love doing it.

(05:28):

What did you do when you were 10? And what did you think was fun organizing the kids in the neighborhood? Do that because it's before we had all those shoulds, I should be a lawyer, I should be a doctor. This is what I just feel like doing. And so I said, "Well, I saw this ad for a business for sale in this food store. I've never been in the food business." And he said, "Let's go take a look at it."

Mel Robbins (05:51):

Wow. And

Ina Garten (05:52):

Only recently did he tell me, he thought he was humoring me. He thought, "Oh, let's just go look at it. This is never going to happen." And then the next weekend we drove up to Westhampton.

Mel Robbins (06:03):

And you'd never been there?

Ina Garten (06:04):

Never been to Westhampton before. It was April. Westhampton in April, it's a beach town. There's nothing going on. I mean, there's tumbleweed down the middle of the street. And there was this tiny little store, it was 400 square feet and it was open and I walked in and they were baking chocolate chip cookies and I thought, okay, this is where I want to be. I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to figure it out.

Mel Robbins (06:26):

What was it about that moment when you walked in? Was it a feeling?

Ina Garten (06:35):

It just felt good. It felt like it was a business I could understand. It smelled good. It looked good. It felt like instead of high heels and silk blouses, I could work in sneakers and blue jeans, and it just felt like I could create something.

Mel Robbins (06:52):

Now I just want to set the table though for a second. I just realized I made a pun there, but I didn't mean to do that. You live in Washington DC.

Ina Garten (06:59):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (07:00):

This is what, like a four or five hour drive?

Ina Garten (07:02):

Five hour drive at least. Yeah.

Mel Robbins (07:03):

You've never been there.

Ina Garten (07:05):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (07:05):

You've never owned a business.

Ina Garten (07:07):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (07:07):

You've never owned a food store.

Ina Garten (07:09):

I never had an employee before.

Mel Robbins (07:10):

Never had an employee before. And your husband humors you to go take a look because maybe it'll shut you up and you'll see. I don't know, just to be nice.

Ina Garten (07:21):

I think he didn't think he was going to shut me up, but he thought I was starting the process to try and figure out what was next, never realizing this was next.

Mel Robbins (07:29):

Wow. Okay. I want to stop right there because one of the things that I love about this story is that a lot of us have these moments. In fact, I'm going to argue that most of us have these kind of moments if we're paying attention almost every day. Actually, John Grisham calls these moments the golden moment. It's a moment that you never see coming, but a light goes off inside you. And if you follow it, it forever changes the trajectory of your life.

Ina Garten (07:59):

Exactly.

Mel Robbins (08:00):

And so you have this moment where if you stopped and thought about it, you would've talked yourself out of it in a nanosecond, but you followed it and then you get there and something awakens, but it still doesn't seem rational.

Ina Garten (08:16):

Well, it doesn't have to be rational. It just has to be I'm leaving something I don't like and I'm going towards something that sounds like it would be really fun to do. And the difference was I was working in the government on budgets that were literally $20 billion budgets, which at the time was a lot. It's still a lot, but it was particularly a lot then, to something that was like $100, but it was my $100. And I felt that it would be really exciting to learn this business and to figure it out and going back was not an option.

Mel Robbins (08:51):

Wow.

Ina Garten (09:09):

There's not much difference. I think cooking is science. And when I was a kid, I was a science nerd. I loved science. And I think the difference between nuclear energy policy and having a specialty food store is not that big a difference because they're all experimentation. If you study science, you're testing things. If you're cooking, you're testing things. But instead of ending up with gibberellic acid, you end up with roast chicken. Which would you rather have?

Mel Robbins (09:39):

Definitely the roast chicken. And a lot of your recipes with roast chicken have a little vinegar in them, so it has a little acid. That's exactly right. Yes. I actually am a big fan of your cooking. And there is another thing that you just said, and that is that a lot of us opt out because we think what we're doing now doesn't qualify us for what we would like to be doing. And if you're willing to walk toward the thing that you would have fun at, you can figure it out and you will quickly realize that everything that you've ever done leads you somewhere and prepares you in ways you don't even realize.

Ina Garten (10:15):

I actually didn't know that until I wrote the memoir. I actually thought everything I did that was outrageous and totally different was something completely new. And only when I wrote the memoir did I realize that when I was in Washington, because I didn't find my job that exciting, I taught myself how to cook. I would buy old houses and renovate them and sell them. So I'd go to the bank and negotiate loans. I would work on renovations. I taught myself how to do that. I went to business school at night when I was working at the White House. I mean, I did a lot of things for the fun of it. And then when I look back, I though I knew nothing, but in fact, I knew more than I gave myself credit for. And it took until 2024 for me to actually realize that.

Mel Robbins (11:02):

Wow, it helped you connect the dots.

Ina Garten (11:04):

It connected the dots and it also made me realize that what I was doing with the store was everything that I loved to do. It was borrowing money and investing. It was building things, building a new store. It was cooking. It was the first time that my job actually included everything that I love to do.

Mel Robbins (11:24):

Well, it wasn't easy though. So I would love to go from that moment where you walked in and you're like, "Oh my gosh," to what it was actually like, because you then bought it.

Ina Garten (11:35):

I did buy it. And I did one thing that was smart. I bought it, but I made a deal with the seller that she would stay for a month and teach me what I need to know because I didn't know anything. I didn't know how to cash how to register. I didn't know how to slice smoke salmon. I could bake 12 brownies for my friends, but I didn't know how to bake a thousand brownies.

Mel Robbins (11:53):

Was there any moment where you had a pit in your stomach and you realized, "What have I done?"

Ina Garten (12:00):

I think after the first week I said to Jeffrey, "This is the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life."

Mel Robbins (12:06):

Well, one of my favorite stories that I think will shock the person listening is, again, you're living in Washington DC. You have bought this storefront that is four or five hours away in a summer community that you've never been to, and so you guys get a rental, and even that doesn't go according to plan.

Ina Garten (12:25):

That was crazy. So we decided that I needed a place to live while I'm there and Jeffrey was going to come on the weekends.

(12:33):

So we rented a house. And then when I went to the house right before Memorial Day to move in, there was a family living there. I was like, "Excuse me, this is my rental." They said, "No, it's ours." And it turns out that the owner of the house had rented it twice. And the weekend before Memorial Day, you can't find a rental anywhere. So we'd actually decided, I said to them, "Okay, well, I'm not going to be here very much because I'm running a specialty food store and my husband lives in Washington, so maybe we could just rent it together." So I moved my stuff into one of the bedrooms and went to the store and we rented that house together and they were absolutely adorable, lovely people.

Mel Robbins (13:15):

That's incredible.

Ina Garten (13:16):

Isn't that crazy?

Mel Robbins (13:17):

It's crazy. I know. Well, one of the things that I also admire about you is you have this, "If there's a will, there's a way. I'm going to figure this out." And a lot of us would show up at a rental that's already full and see that as a sign that things aren't going to happen, but you have this unbelievable ability to tinker and figure it out.

Ina Garten (13:37):

I have to say, I think Jeffrey taught me this. If there are two things you can't decide which one to do, his initial reaction is, "Let's figure out how to do both of them." Because I think a lot of stress comes from who gets to decide.

Mel Robbins (13:50):

Yeah.

Ina Garten (13:50):

I think a lot of relationships fall apart on that is who gets to decide. How about we don't decide? How about we do everything?

Mel Robbins (13:57):

Oh, that's a great life philosophy.

Ina Garten (14:00):

It is, isn't it?

Mel Robbins (14:01):

Well, one of the things that you figured out in the early days is just how hard it is to do this. And I love the story of you falling asleep underneath the counter and driving the station wagon. So can you share with the person listening some of the early days, what it actually took?

Ina Garten (14:19):

Well, it is a very hard business. I loved every minute of it, but I'm not minimizing how physically hard it is. So I would get to the store at five o'clock in the morning and I would make sure everything was organized for the chef and the front of the house. We would open at eight or nine o'clock in the morning and we would go all day. And then at six o'clock, the first weekend, particularly, we closed the store at maybe six o'clock on Friday of Memorial Day weekend. There wasn't anything left in the store. I mean, nothing. We really weren't prepared for the long weekend. And I just said to the woman who had sold it to me, "What are we going to do?" She said, "No problem. We're going to go to the grocery store and we're going to buy flour and sugar and chocolate and we're going to buy chicken and we're going to make chicken salad and we're going to make chocolate cake." And we stayed all night and cooked and baked.

(15:09):

And then we just basically stayed and opened the store the next day and we did it again the day after that. And by now you're working on nervous energy, but I love doing it and it was fun and it was engaging and it was challenging.

(15:23):

And I said to myself, "I'm going to run this store exactly the way the seller ran it, and I'm going to figure out how to do it differently over the winter when it's closed." And that's what I did.

Mel Robbins (15:33):

There was a moment though where your husband turned to you and said, "I don't think you're going to make it here."

Ina Garten (15:40):

That was the first weekend. It was actually before. I bought the store on Thursday, Memorial Day weekend.

Mel Robbins (15:47):

On

Ina Garten (15:48):

Thursday? Thursday before Memorial Day weekend. I didn't know what Memorial Day weekend in the Hamptons was. I came from Washington. So I bought it on Thursday and the seller whose name was Diane Estrada, who was wonderful, great teacher, said, "I'm going to show you how to cash out the register." And there was $87 in the register for the entire day, and that was gross before you paid the rent or the employees. And Jeffrey had a calculator and he multiplied 87 times the number of days in the summer. And he said, "I don't think you're going to make it here." What we didn't know is Friday of Memorial Day weekend was a completely different story. And that's when on Friday, at the end of the day, we were cleaned out. Then I thought, oh wait, there might be something here.

Mel Robbins (16:30):

There was definitely something there and you were just getting started.

Ina Garten (16:43):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (16:43):

What does that mean?

Ina Garten (16:44):

I think that we stop ourselves because we think if you're standing on the side of the pond and you're trying to decide whether you should jump in the pond, there might be fish in there. It might be cold, it might be really deep. You don't know what you're getting into, and you can't decide what to do when you're standing on the side of the pond. You got to jump in the pond, splash around, see what it is, and figure out what to do about it. And maybe while you're in that pond, you can look over there and go, oh, that's actually a really interesting place to go that you would never have seen if you weren't in the pond. So I feel like you just need to jump in the pond. We talk ourselves out of so many things because we think, well, I can't possibly know everything and what am I going to do if something unexpected comes along?

(17:32):

You know what? You'll figure it out. And I actually came across an expression that I just adore that's really changed me. It was from JP Morgan. A friend of mine told me this, "Go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll be able to see farther." You don't need to know the answer to every question that you have. You just need to figure out as far as you can see, make the decisions that are the best decisions, and when you get there, you'll be able to see more.

Mel Robbins (17:58):

I love that.

Ina Garten (17:59):

Isn't that a great expression?

Mel Robbins (18:00):

It's beautiful. It's

Ina Garten (18:01):

So true. Because you don't need to know where you're going. You just need to know what you're going to do today and tomorrow.

Mel Robbins (18:06):

That's true. And then as you move forward, what you see changes.

Ina Garten (18:11):

Changes. Yeah.

Mel Robbins (18:14):

I've wasted decades of my life standing there thinking, okay, I hate being a lawyer. What's my calling? You don't need to know.

Ina Garten (18:20):

You don't need to know. Yeah.

Mel Robbins (18:21):

You just need to know that in those moments where you're sitting there at a budget desk doing nuclear policy or you're commuting to a big law firm and you feel the just stomach clenching as you go into the office building, that that's a sign that you don't need to know the bigger picture. You need to know that this is not for you anymore.

Ina Garten (18:42):

And actually, one of the things I find is I never figure out where I'm going. I just figure out what I'm going to do today. I do the best job I can. And before I'm done for the day, I figure out what I'm going to do tomorrow. I start the day with purpose. I don't start the day thinking, okay, what should I do today? I start the day with purpose and I end the day with what I'm going to do the next day and see where it goes. And I think it's so much better in the long run to be open to whatever comes along rather than say, I want to get from here to being a lawyer.

Mel Robbins (19:13):

Yeah.

Ina Garten (19:13):

Because you might miss something along the way that would've been more interesting.

Ina Garten (19:23):

Think I borrowed that from somebody. I don't know who, but it's true. And it doesn't mean everything in my life is fun. It just means it's either fun on its own or it's in the furtherance of fun. So I think in the food business, I love the creativity of it and I love the challenge of it, but if you don't take care of business, you don't get to do the fun stuff.

Mel Robbins (19:44):

That's true.

Ina Garten (19:44):

So I think that I find the business interesting and challenging, but it's all in the furtherance of being able to do something creative and fun.

Mel Robbins (19:52):

That's very important. I want to make sure I put a highlighter on that because if you reframe the things you hate doing as I am doing this because it's in furtherance of the thing I love doing, now you've just given meaning to the things you hate doing. We do that here all the time actually. You're making me think about a meeting we had this morning where we had an episode dropping this morning and at 7:53 in the morning, we were arguing over this super dumb detail on social media about whether or not the video needed a thumbnail uploaded or embedded and the title, and we're just like... And it was not fun, but it's in furtherance. In

Ina Garten (20:43):

Furtherance of it.

Mel Robbins (20:44):

Yes, of the impact we want to make. And I love that reframing. Thank you.You're a genius.

Ina Garten (20:51):

Oh, I'm just so... You are. Aren't amazing?

Mel Robbins (20:54):

You are amazing. Thank you. And it's not just the recipes that you're cooking up. You're giving us a recipe for a different mindset and a different approach that opens up possibility in your life.

Ina Garten (21:05):

I think too, as a woman, I think things have changed since I was in the government, but I don't think it's changed completely. And I decided that, I said earlier that somebody was never going to choose me, probably a man, was never going to choose me to be the head of OMB, which was why bother working so hard for something that I'm never going to succeed at? And I thought I need an alternate track that's mine where the only thing that will limit me is my own talent and my own drive. And I think I've done that, which is really great.

Mel Robbins (21:42):

You've definitely done that. And the piece not to miss as you're listening is recognizing that ultimately it's on you.

Ina Garten (21:50):

It's on you.

Mel Robbins (21:53):

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Ina Garten (23:06):

Oh, my gold necklace. I still have it. When I was first running the store the first summer, I was 30 years old and the woman who sold it to me was teaching me how to run the store, and customers would come in and they'd go, "Do this, get me that." They're on my case all the time, and I was like, "I own this store. Why are they treating me like this?" I didn't like that they treated my employees like that either, but Diana said to me, she said, "You need to wear some jewelry and they'll know that you own this store." So I walked across the street to a jewelry store and I bought what I thought was the gaudiest, biggest gold necklace I've ever seen in my life. And I put it on and I walked into the store and people said, "Oh, is this your store?" I thought it was so interesting to non-verbally change my relationship with the customers.

(23:55):

We could change the conversation by changing ourselves. We don't always have to change the other person. And that's what happened with the customers. I wanted to change the conversation with them and I changed something I did, and it was very effective.

Mel Robbins (24:09):

There was another thing that you noticed because you're jumping in the pond and splashing around, and in the beginning, you started making all kinds of fancy food and it didn't sell, and it gave you this epiphany about what people actually wanted.

Ina Garten (24:27):

Which has totally informed all of my cookbooks.

Mel Robbins (24:30):

Yes.

Ina Garten (24:30):

So in the beginning, I thought it was a specialty food store, it was a fancy area, it was the Hamptons, and I'm going to make really fancy food. So I started making veal with morels, and I remember taking a huge platter and I wanted to put roast chicken on. It was big white platter, fresh herbs all over the place, and it didn't sell. Then I was like, "What am I doing wrong?" I took that big platter and I went back in the kitchen and I took the chickens off the big, gorgeous platter with the fabulous fresh herbs and put them in little red and white chick, those things that you - Oh,

Mel Robbins (25:06):

Like those picnic basket things,

Ina Garten (25:08):

A

Mel Robbins (25:09):

Lobster roll?

Ina Garten (25:10):

Like you would get french fries in, and I just lined them up on the counter, and they sold in 10 minutes. And I though, oh, people have elegant taste, but they don't want fancy food at home. They want to go out for something fancy, but at home they want roast chicken, they want lobster salad, they want simple, earthy things

(25:31):

Just by experimenting, that's my scientific background. I would put out five things and see which one people wanted, and you never know what it is, but you have to just keep trying. I'll tell you a story. When I moved to East Hampton, I had them made actually, these huge tables. I wanted the pastry section to be on tables like a V&E's dessert table. It wasn't behind refrigerated glass. It was out, it was open. I had the cabinet maker put drawers in the front of those tables so that I could put things in while people are waiting to have their chocolate cake boxed up. They're just standing there with nothing to do. I though, "Oh, it's a great opportunity to merchandise something to them." So I put in little packages of cookies they didn't sell. I put in packages of muffins they didn't sell. Every week I'd put in something else to see what would sell, and none of it sold.

(26:29):

I put in coffee it didn't sell. And then one time I ordered a lot of granola and it just flew out of the store. And I thought, "Isn't that interesting? I would never have chosen granola as being the thing that would sell there." But I think when people are buying something kind of a little decadent like a chocolate cake, they say, "Oh, I'll have something healthy like granola." And for the rest of the time that I had the store, we had granola in those drawers. But it's all a science experiment and you never know what the answer's going to be. If you decide in advance that you think you know what the answer is, you're wrong.

Mel Robbins (27:04):

I've got a very funny story to tell you actually about this same thing and experimenting. So it's funny, I feel a little shy about telling you this story, but I was a public defender in New York City after law school and I love that job. And then my husband, I blame everything on poor Chris Robbins. My husband gets into business school up here in Boston and also gets a job while he's going to business school, so I have to leave this job I love. And the only job I could find was working for a large law firm, which I hated, the exact opposite of being a public defender in New York City. And so I started thinking to myself, I hate this job, but I need the money. What have I always thought I wanted to do? And I was such a fan of yours, and in particular, I loved the way you displayed things.

Ina Garten (28:02):

Oh, thank you.

Mel Robbins (28:02):

And the different tiered... It just looked so gorgeous

Ina Garten (28:05):

You in the store?

Mel Robbins (28:06):

No, I only saw the photos for crying out loud. Wow. And so I was an admirer from afar, and I though, "You know what I'm going to do? I've always wanted to own a bakery. I've always wanted to own a bakery like Barefoot Contessa because it looks so wonderful.

Ina Garten (28:20):

Incredible story.

Mel Robbins (28:21):

Wait till you hear this. So I get a job on the weekends.

Ina Garten (28:27):

Where?

Mel Robbins (28:27):

Working at a bakery outside of Boston. It didn't last long because let me tell you something. This is why it's important to jump in. This is why it's important to notice what you're drawn toward. This is why it's important to experiment. So I decide I'm going to get a job working at a bakery on the weekends, and that way I can kind of learn the business behind the scenes and experiment. Let me tell you, it took exactly six hours on my first Saturday, showing up at six o'clock in the morning, making carrot muffins, filling sugar dispensers, filling napkins, wiping counters down, taking out garbage bags that weighed 30 pounds because people put coffee in, that made me realize I like this. I do not have what it takes to own a bakery. Here's the epiphany, because this relates back to what you were saying. You don't have to see all the way.

(29:28):

Go as far as you can see. And all I could see is I think maybe I want a bakery because I'm so inspired by what Barefoot Contessa looks like.

Ina Garten (29:35):

Isn't that interesting?

Mel Robbins (29:36):

And then I went that far and I realized, wait, I don't actually want to own a bakery and run one. I want to have control over my life and community so that when I walk into Barefoot Contessa, I have a little bit of time to sit down and have a cup of coffee and the owner and I know each other. It was really meant for me, but it had a... Different lesson in it.

Ina Garten (30:02):

How old were you?

Mel Robbins (30:03):

Oh my gosh, this would've been, I don't know, probably 25 years ago.

Ina Garten (30:08):

I was 30. I think our 20s are for experimenting. Unless you are Yitzek Roman and you know you're always going to be a violinist or Taylor Swift and you always know you're going to be a singer songwriter, as you said. Our 20s are for experimenting. Try everything. And you're going to learn something from each experience that's going to say, "I want to go in that direction. I don't want to go in that direction." And then by the time you're 30, you've had those experiences and now you know what you like and you can figure out how to make that into a business. Yes. And that's what you did.

Mel Robbins (30:40):

Yeah. Well, I knew I didn't want to own Barefoot Contessa, that's for sure. I did not have it in me, that's for sure.