Are You an “Over” or “Under” Functioner? A Helpful Guide to Your Stress Style

Mel Robbins (22:03):

Definitely. Well, let's just talk about that moment that Oakley called because he called and he tried you first and because you were sleeping on the way to the hospital for your colonoscopy, he then called me, you didn't pick up, and he was in the middle of the road and the car stopped driving and he sounded panicked. And I immediately in that moment felt overwhelmed and anxious and worried about him. And so there was of a zero to 10, there was an alarm ringing inside me that felt like an eight, and my mind started racing zero to 10. How stressful of an alarm was it for you and what happens in your mind when something like that happens?

 

Chris Robbins (23:07):

I would say I was probably a three or a four, maybe skewing more towards the three, because we had Oakley on the phone. He was not overly frantic in his own communication, but he was clearly going through a first time experience of having a car breakdown and being on the road or the side of the road. I don't think either of us asked him, are you safe? Which would've been a good first question, which

 

Mel Robbins (23:42):

Might, I asked him if he was okay. He said, yeah, I'm okay.

 

Chris Robbins (23:45):

Okay.

 

Mel Robbins (23:46):

Well, I think it's important to note that that small situation for you registered as a three, but for me it's an eight. So already our insides feel totally different. And when a situation like that happens for you, what happens in your brain? Because it's very clear that what happens for me is I am 25 steps ahead. The second the alarm rings,

 

Chris Robbins (24:09):

Right? Therein lies part of the good. And the challenge of it is that it's great to have somebody on the team who's thinking 20 steps ahead, but not if all the information hasn't been gathered yet and where at least I was in that very acute moment, was trying to collect the information and I was collecting it from Oakley and then I was collecting it from Mary,

 

Mel Robbins (24:43):

The school administrator

 

Chris Robbins (24:45):

Who we still need to get flowers for

 

Mel Robbins (24:50):

And

 

Chris Robbins (24:51):

The tow company and the tow company

 

Mel Robbins (24:51):

And aaa.

 

Chris Robbins (24:53):

And aaa. And I was on the way to the hospital myself self.

 

Mel Robbins (25:01):

Well, this is a really important thing to distinguish because I go into hyperdrive as an over functioner and I skip the information gathering or I get just what I think I need and I'm already 25 steps ahead, problem solving, problem solving, problem solving, problem solving. Whereas you slow things down and you go into researchers call it under functioning, but you go into a mode of slowing things down to process and collect information so that you can make decisions. This is all from Harriet Lerner. She is one of the most respected and cited psychologists of our time under and over-functioning. These are terms that she first coined as a way to describe the way people respond to stress and how it impacts their ability to function in those situations. Harriet Lerner has this phrase that I love because again, we want you to get out of the trap where you do this on automatic. I could feel myself wanting to talk over Chris when the call came in and I'm like, shut up, Mel, shut up Mel, shut up Mel, shut up Mel,

 

Chris Robbins (26:19):

Right where I get. Or I perceive judgment from you, particularly in a situation like this where you're barking and do this and do that. It's that there unspoken assumption that I am not in problem solving mode and that is not at all accurate. That while I may be slower to jump to the decision or you might feel like I am being too methodical in my information collecting, I'm always thinking about a solution every step of the way.

 

Mel Robbins (26:59):

I will take responsibility for the fact that that is true. And actually the research bears us out. Harriet Lerner found that Overfunctioners like me who prioritize action, action, action, action, action and fast, fast, fast, fast, fast. And I got it. And the way I'm going to do it's right because my anxiety is driving the problem solving that when we are in a relationship with somebody who is in the slower fact gathering, processing under functioning role, resentment builds up because we feel the pressure to carry the alarm. We think that the actions have to match the height of the alarm we feel inside. And the slow methodical processing nature of stopping to gather facts does make it seem to somebody like me that this doesn't matter to you or it's not as important to you and I, 

Chris Robbins (28:35):

I guess it keeps getting, yeah, it keeps getting more.

 

Mel Robbins (28:38):

Where I do this, I trample all over you When the alarm inside me rings, when the alarm inside you rings, you go in and you start to process and you feel really not supported by me and I feel mad at you. And it creates this dynamic where you just assume Mel's going to do anything anyway. So why bother? And it leaves you no room to really take the lead or to even problem solve in your own way because my over-functioning has fucking trampled you. And I don't like this in me. I'm not saying I want you to be more like me, dear God, no. But this is something that everybody has. Either they see themselves in you, Chris, or they see themselves in me. So what do you wish?

 

Chris Robbins (29:39):

Well, a couple things about that though. What's interesting is that the resentment cuts both ways. You might resent me for not fighting fire with fire or responding how you would, but when I feel bulldozed or that 

Mel Robbins (30:45):

So you've been able to put up a force field

 

Chris Robbins (30:47):

A little bit,

 

Mel Robbins (30:48):

Chris. Sometimes I wish I could put up a force field and protect myself from myself. You're a saint Harriet Lerner does have some direction for us though. She says that you need to learn how to hang in. And what that means is that when you're hanging in with the other person during a stressful situation, it means stop yourself from doing what you normally do. So her guidance is if you're like me, hanging in means, Mel, hold your tongue. So for anybody that is an over-functioner in stressful situations, say 50% less than you would normally do. And Chris, her guidance for you is that when stress hits hanging in means as you catch yourself slowing down and you feel yourself kind of going quiet as you're processing, hanging in means don't leave me. Make sure that you start talking more and telling me that you're processing because otherwise that silent processing, it creates anger inside of me because anybody that's an over-functioner in your silence, you start to feel abandoned. Like you don't care about what's going on,

 

Chris Robbins (32:15):

Right? I perceive judgment from you.

 

Mel Robbins (32:20):

I'm sure you do perceive that judgment and I'm sorry about that. Why don't we just take a quick break right now so that we can have everybody hear a word from our sponsors and then when we come back, here's what I'd love to do. I would love to figure out not only using the research, but also just working together as a couple. How can we support one another better through these stressful moments? We'll be right back. Hey, it's Mel. And if you've ever thought, gosh, I just wish I could get Mel to coach me. Well now you can. Once a year, I offer a live coaching program called Launch and it is open for registration right now. If you're interested, I invite you. No, I urge you to check it out. Last year it sold out. It has a 7,000 person wait list. But being a fan of the podcast, I know you're not just the listening type, you're the doing type.

 

(33:14):

You are going to love this. It's 42 lectures. That's the curriculum. It's all new. It is a private premium app driven community. I am the professor. It lasts for six months. There are 11 live coaching calls. You are going to love this. The information is in the link above. And I would love, love, love to coach you. I'd love to empower you to launch a new chapter in your personal or professional life. If you've ever wanted me to coach you, this is your chance. Do not wait. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Let's go. Welcome back. It's Mel Robbins and I got my husband Chris here. And we're talking about what you do when you get stressed out as the famous psychologist, bestselling author and researcher, Harriet Lerner says, you are either an over functioner when you get stressed out or you under function when you get stressed. And so Chris and I have been talking about this, and Chris, I have a question for you. What do you wish I would do in these situations? I'm going to try to hang in, but I'd love to hear from you. What would that look like? How could I show up differently?

 

Chris Robbins (34:28):

Well, I think that with respect to the anxiety or the nervousness about it, to the extent we're not dealing with a life-threatening issue, we could probably be better about getting to the root of what the fear and source of anxiety is for you. If we had as much wherewithal to stop and have that conversation like, okay, what is triggering the anxiousness? What's the worry? You know what I'm saying? Slow down the which with all due respect, I have little hope for us being able to slow down that conversation because you're 20 steps ahead wanting to solve the problem and be crazy about it.

 

Mel Robbins (35:20):

This is why I wanted to talk about this with everybody because every one of us has an automatic subconscious response to a stressful situation. And there is no doubt in my mind that you literally go silent and you process, and I hear you. You are problem solving and you are reacting in your own way. And my automatic response is to move into hyper speed action because it simulates this feeling that I am taking control of a situation that has triggered me to feel out of control. And one of the things that you could do if I start barking over you is if you were to just turn to me and go, what are you afraid of right now? Or Actually, what's scaring you, Mel? Because that would hit me at a more emotional level and it would allow me to feel like you're recognizing that I'm not being a bitchy bulldozer, but there's something that actually is scaring me. And that would be the root cause. One thing that would help me respect you is if you would call me out,

 

Chris Robbins (36:33):

Well, by asking the question, what are you fearful of? You are being called out a little bit.

 

Mel Robbins (36:38):

Yeah, in a kind way. What are you scared of, Mel? I would've said, I'm scared that he's alone. I'm scared that something bad's going to happen. I'm scared that we're not there. I'm scared that he's got to figure this out on his own and he's going to feel anxious and feel abandoned bias. I'm scared of all these big things that aren't really an issue. The kid has a car that broke down four blocks from the high school, like we're okay here, Mel. But there are bigger things driving this for me. So if you ask Mel, what are you scared of right now? It would help me at

 

Chris Robbins (37:13):

That. But then would you expect us to just set aside all of your spoken fears and redirect attention toward a solution that may not address your fears? Or should we actually take those fears and say, okay, well, what we're going to do right now with Oakley is make sure that 

Mel Robbins (37:42):

What's cute is you're even processing what I just said. Now you're problem solving and parsing. So you're even seeing this, you guys in real time, Chris is seeking to understand. He's gathering information. If you ask me that question, what are you scared of right now, Mel? It would have me turn toward the source and realize, okay, this is an irrational fear given the circumstances, handle the call.

 

Chris Robbins (38:11):

Just

 

Mel Robbins (38:12):

Make sure you tell 'em that you move the car,

 

Chris Robbins (38:16):

Bark, bark,

 

Mel Robbins (38:17):

Bark, bark, bark, bark. I'll tell you what would help me. I think what would help me is if we're in that situation, if you were to just be like, I need a sec. I'm processing, or I need a sec, I'm thinking about how to solve this problem.

 

Chris Robbins (38:30):

So shut the fuck up, doesn't work.

 

Mel Robbins (38:32):

No, you'd have to add in. Shut the fuck up. I'm trying to solve the problem and I can't with you fucking barking at me. That's probably not as kind as what are you scared of, honey?

 

Chris Robbins (38:45):

Yeah,

 

Mel Robbins (38:46):

And give me a second. I'm processing. I'll handle it. And that would help me do what I need to do, which is speak 75% less.

 

Chris Robbins (39:00):

Right? And not to digress, but part of the challenge that both you and I have as parents in situations like this with our own kids is that they do often get excellent counsel and problem solving from you real time fast. And so it is a bit of a natural tendency of theirs to come to you for that.

 

Mel Robbins (39:28):

It's true. Our kids come to you to talk

 

Chris Robbins (39:30):

And I admire.

 

Mel Robbins (39:31):

They come to me for an emergency.

 

Chris Robbins (39:33):

I admire that about you, the 20 steps ahead because there's some value and power in that. But I think that in situations where it just completely eviscerates the contribution I could bring to the table, then that's no good. I think that there is a happy medium that we could always improve upon and be more team oriented versus my opinion is a better one than yours.

 

Mel Robbins (40:01):

Our ability to function, Chris, based on the research comes down to your ability to make decisions, your ability to act on those decisions and the ability to handle emotion. So if you put yourself in a situation where there is a real emergency, how does stress hit your brain? Do you go numb? Does everything slow down?

 

Chris Robbins (40:33):

I don't know about slow down, but a narrowing of focus majorly and a little bit of numbness.

 

Mel Robbins (40:45):

Can you think of a time, Chris, zero to 10, when that alarm inside you was going off, you were stressed and overwhelmed and you kind of went into this mode of processing?

 

Chris Robbins (41:00):

Yes. I would say recently with our daughter Sawyer and the trip that she took to Mass General and spent the day in the ER and getting all those tests, and we were in Vermont not really knowing what was going on or getting third hand information or being stonewalled by our daughter about not coming down. And interestingly enough, that was another scenario with the two of us where you were pretty hyped up and I got to do this, I got to do that. And in this very expressive, frantic mode. And what I'm picking up on is that that day it was heightened for me too. And what I'm seeing in this conversation is that I was responding all day, but a lot of it was internal. And you label that as me quote processing. So there's actually a judgment inside of that, at least I feel because while it doesn't on the outside look as though I'm 20 steps ahead with all gazillion types of solutions, you and I are still very much aligned in the sense that we are in the midst of it. We were both feeling that whatever heightened, 8, 9, 10, 11, however you want to respond to it about the situation. We were going about it in different ways.

 

Mel Robbins (42:52):

Well, the situation, just to bring everybody in the loop is our daughter had been sick for two weeks with weird symptoms, just odd symptoms. And so she goes to a clinic on Friday in Boston and they do a bunch of tests and then send her to the ER at Mass General. And we learn about this at about 10 o'clock in the morning, and my immediate reaction was, I got to go down. And our daughter is like, she narrows her focus. She said, Nope, I'm good. They're just running some tests. A roommate of mine's going to go with me. I'm a little nervous, but it's fine. I'll call you if I need you. Now we live three and a half hours away and I was ready to get in a car and I said to Chris, I'm going to get in a car. And he's like, oh, I just talked to her.

 

(43:38):

And she said, she's okay. And so I didn't get the feeling from you that you were nervous at all. And all day long I was saying, I really need to go. I think I should go. I think I should go. I should go down. And Sawyer at every turn was like, it's okay. It's okay. And then finally at about three o'clock when she said, they've just pulled 23 vials of blood, my heart sank and I got in the car and I went down and I got there. And with your support, and I have to say, said, I got to stay here because we have two dogs. And part of me was even like, fuck the dogs. We'll get somebody to come over. This is our kid. We got to go. And I'm learning a couple things in this conversation that's super helpful. Seriously.

 

Chris Robbins (44:30):

Yeah, let's hear it

 

Mel Robbins (44:34):

As I am getting triggered to over function and I'm scurrying around and I'm emitting all this nervous energy and I'm calling this person and calling that person and calling this person and calling that person, and what should I do? And I'm going to go. And then she says, now, I never stopped myself in that busyness to go, what do I need to do? Forget about what Sawyer's saying, forget about what Chris is doing. What do I need to do for me? And the fact is, I learned a really important lesson. You do not ask somebody if they want you there. If you feel called to just show up, get in the fucking car and go. And that is the lesson that I have learned from that because it was all of a sudden serious, and I could have been there then, but I didn't listen to myself in the beginning because I was so busy being triggered that I didn't actually get quiet to go, well, what in my heart tells me is what I need to do even if she's walking out of the hospital by the time I get there.

 

Chris Robbins (45:47):

But that also points back to the question and the benefit of asking that question, what are you triggered by? What are you afraid of? Because had we had that conversation, you would've arrived at this decision about what you needed, and you would've gotten in the car sooner than you already did.

 

Mel Robbins (46:05):

I would've gotten in at 10 o'clock in the morning, and I'll tell you why. If you had asked me, what are you scared of? I would've said, I'm scared that she's going through something scary alone. And I would've talked about a memory that I had when our son, Oakley was six days old, and he was rushed for lifesaving surgery to Mass General, the same hospital. And we were told to go get our things and to prepare ourselves because he might not make it to the hospital and to pack our bags because if he did make it, we were going to be there for a while. And when we walked into Mass General into the NICU and the door swung open, Robin Houck and Lisa Schwartz were standing there. They had heard what was going on. They were two of our closest friends. And Robin and Lisa just showed up because they had had kids in the nicu and they knew how scary it was.

 

(47:14):

And they knew that we wouldn't know how to ask for help, that we just needed somebody there. And they showed up. And I will always love them for that. And I will never forget what it felt like to see two people there for us. And so I would've said, I'm scared that she's going to be in that hospital and be alone. And she was for 11 hours, and she learned a lot too about her under functioning and not pushing people away and asking for help. So it was a huge revelation, but I think that question is more powerful than I realize. What are you scared of? And for me, I'm learning that I need to stop myself. I need to stop talking. I need to drop into my body, and I need to work with you to help you unpack what I need to do for me in that moment.

 

Chris Robbins (48:18):

Yeah, I would agree with all of that except for the stop talking. I think just talking in an organized less tornado like fashion is maybe more like it.

 

Mel Robbins (48:31):

Well, I'm kind of afraid if I open my mouth at all, it'll come out like a tornado. One more thing. What if I were to call you the trip leader? This is something else I would recommend people do. One of the things that has come up in our therapy with Dr. Cooper that has really helped our relationship in terms of identifying these dynamics where we're not in balance or we're kind of in our separate corners, is 

Chris Robbins (49:29):

Not my trip leader, the trip leader,

 

Mel Robbins (49:32):

Whoa, the trip leader has arrived, people, well, you're kind of my trip leader. I mean, I like to think of you as my trip leader, but you are the trip leader, especially when you're leading, you're retreats for sole degree for all those awesome guys that go on your retreats.

 

Chris Robbins (49:49):

I'm sort of making a little bit of a joke that,

 

Mel Robbins (49:53):

So would you rather me call out that I need the trip leader right now?

 

Chris Robbins (49:59):

Yeah. Well, I think we should try that for sure and see if it shifts something. Because the interesting thing about what you say about feeling taken care of when we go fishing or camping or something is that once again, I am always 20 steps ahead. I often feel like I am in real life too, but I'm doing it in a way that is not, there's not nearly as much outward expression in that solution. Mindedness and thinking, okay, what's coming next? And how do we account for that? And so by way of maybe using that term trip leader, it would even be a reminder to me to work us both into a more thoughtful kind of like, all right, what's going on here? What's triggering the angst? Let's get to the root of that first. That might be a helpful nudge.

 

Mel Robbins (51:07):

There's one final thing I wanted to say. I know you have some things you need to do this afternoon. I'm also getting how it really sucks that you're not getting credit for the amount of hard thinking and problem solving and worrying that you are doing. I'm sorry for that.

 

Chris Robbins (51:26):

Thanks for saying that. I hadn't really spent much time thinking about that, but I think you're actually right. So I accept your apology.

 

Mel Robbins (51:35):

Thank you. I love you.

 

Chris Robbins (51:39):

I love you too.

 

Mel Robbins (51:40):

Oh, and speaking of love, I want to be sure, in case nobody else tells you today, whether you're an under functioner or you're an over functioner, I love you. I love you, and I believe in your ability to catch yourself, to hang in, as Harriet Lerner has advised us, to ask for what support you need from the people around you and to use everything you just learned today to create a better life. Alright, hope nothing stressful happens in the next couple days, but now you know how to handle it. I'll talk to you in a few days. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.