Episode: 80
5 Things the Men in Your Life Aren’t Telling You but Need to Talk About
with Chris Robbins
Understand the 5 challenges men face and how to build life-changing self-love habits.
Learn why it’s so hard to love yourself and how to change that. Get incredible insights from Mel's husband Chris’ transformative journey:
Love isn’t just a feeling, it’s an action.
This episode is a must-listen for every man, boy, or anyone who identifies as male—and the people who love them.
Listen on:
You are not alone in either the struggle you have with forgiving yourself or the judgments or the failures or whatever that may be. You are not alone.
Chris Robbins
Featured Clips
Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:00:03):
Today you and I are going to have a conversation about the most important relationship that you have in life, and that's the relationship you have with yourself. The first domino that needs to fall is something that I call the high five habit.
Chris Robbins (00:00:19):
The high five was easy. The looking at myself in the mirror, that was not easy.
Mel Robbins (00:00:26):
Why? Can I hold your hand?
(00:00:34):
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today I've got a special treat for you and me, ladies and gentlemen. Christopher Robbins has agreed to come on the show today.
Chris Robbins (00:00:50):
Thanks for having me, Mel.
Mel Robbins (00:00:51):
Well, I gave you no choice. We'll be honest with that. I sort of twisted your arm into this because there's a very important thing that once you shared it with me, I wanted you to share it with everybody, and I should just point out everybody that like a lot of our podcast episodes, we're just putting our arms around you and taking you on a walk with Chris and I today. And what's happening on our walk is there's a construction project outside, so if you hear some beep beep beeps or some backing up, you're just here with us in Vermont on a walk, right Chris?
Chris Robbins (00:01:25):
Just another day in the beep beeps.
Mel Robbins (00:01:27):
Yep, that's right. Let me just set the table a little bit. Okay. So I was talking to Chris this morning and my husband about six years ago founded a men's retreat called Soul Degree. I think a lot of the story about the restaurant businesses tanking and our life savings going down the drain with it after the restaurant business tanked. You took a couple years to really figure out what you were going to do next with your life and to heal. A lot of went down for you personally in the wake of that experience of launching a business, pouring your heart and soul into it and then it not working. One of the things that you've done is you've started a men's retreat called Soul Degree where you take men out into the woods and it's a five day experience that includes yoga and journaling and guided meditation and all kinds of coaching.
Mel Robbins (00:02:34):
And so you've got one of your men's retreats coming up and you never ever talk about what happens, Adam. You come back and you're completely transformed. And I really respect the fact that you don't share anything because it's all confidential. But I asked you this morning if you would just tell me what are the themes that come up when you go and do a retreat with five men, or you're coaching your male clients and you said there are five very distinct themes that all the men that you work with are struggling with. And when you told them to me, I was shocked. And I said, everybody needs to hear this. So that's what I want to talk about. Okay.
Chris Robbins (00:03:16):
Yes.
Mel Robbins (00:03:17):
So can we go through them? What are the five things that all the men that you know and the men that have been on your retreats and the men that you coach, what are they struggling with but not telling the people in their life that they're struggling with?
Chris Robbins (00:03:30):
Well, I think one of the things that we were talking about this morning is just that guys don't put themselves first. Everyone else comes first. And that manifests or shows up often, at least with many of the men that I've engaged with, is them losing complete sight of what they need or want for themselves just because the muscle of looking out for themself is completely lost and it's all about everyone else.
Mel Robbins (00:04:06):
When you first shared that in the kitchen this morning, I looked at you with my eyes crossed because I had never in a million years thought that a dude feels like everybody else comes first because every woman that I know says that everybody in her life comes first. And so it never even occurred to me that the guys walking around feel as though everybody else in the family or with their roommates or with their significant other that they come before them.
Chris Robbins (00:04:35):
I think they're putting what they perceive to be the needs of the people around them first, which means they're pouring themselves into work or other obligations, if you will, and losing track of what genuinely they. I mean, I have guys that have come on retreat and they haven't really even conceived of a hobby, much less what, what's important to them.
Mel Robbins (00:05:13):
You also explained that you have this exercise that you do with your coaching clients and that you guys do on retreat that really illustrates what you're talking about. Can you explain that?
Chris Robbins (00:05:24):
Well, it's just that it's a conversation about where there has been neglect in focusing on yourself and the things that you find meaning and value in. Which again, like I said, I think it gets lost in the shuffle. So I've asked guys to take out a piece of paper and write down specifically what they want and need. And many just draw a blank, can't fill the page,
Mel Robbins (00:06:00):
Nothing.
Chris Robbins (00:06:03):
No. They actually have to step away from the exercise and even give it a day or two before they really feel like, hmm, haven't really thought about that before.
Mel Robbins (00:06:13):
That's a layer deeper that I think what most women struggle with, because I think at least the women that I talk to and my friends and listeners to the show that write in, you have a sense of what you need to do to put yourself first. You have a sense of what you want in terms of your own needs and there's a longing for it. But to have an experience of life where you have, so put everybody else before you that you don't even know or feel like your needs matter enough that you can't even put 'em on a piece of paper. Wow, that's a lot.
Chris Robbins (00:06:53):
Yeah, it is tough to swallow. And with all due respect, I think that if you look at something as basic as exercise, for example, and you see a guy spending a good bit of time exercising, that's not to say that he doesn't perceive that as being a need or a want of his, but there oftentimes is still a layer of obligation. I got to look good for my wife or I got to whatever that there's a got to have to. And so I'm not sure that can always fall in the appropriate category of genuinely what do I need to feel good about myself and my life?
Mel Robbins (00:07:38):
What's the second one?
Chris Robbins (00:07:40):
I think people are, I'm not sure if I'd say explicitly they're lonely, but many are friendless or have lost their way in developing friendships. Again, the muscle has weakened as they have poured themselves into things like work and career and family, and God forbid they're running into health problems. I mean, all of these things sort of take precedent to cultivating real deep friendships and so many guys, I think in general in life, I think it's particularly when you hit your forties, fifties, I think you really have to work extra hard at cultivating and building friendship. And I'm not talking about maybe the guys that maybe there are people in your life that have been around since middle school or high school or college, but outside of that, especially if you're somebody that's moving or changing geographies or even jobs for that matter, it can be really disruptive and be a major roadblock and then subsequently just an excuse and then all of a sudden the guy wakes up and is like, yeah, I don't really have a whole lot of friends around me.
Mel Robbins (00:09:09):
Wow. What about the third thing that men struggle with but they don't really talk about or I mean, it's
Chris Robbins (00:09:16):
Surprising. I think it's just a cultural thing, of course, that men naturally still follow that societal norm of needing to be the provider and the protector or one and the same and that
Mel Robbins (00:09:39):
You mean make money.
Chris Robbins (00:09:40):
It's all about making money.
Mel Robbins (00:09:41):
How so?
Chris Robbins (00:09:44):
Well, I think whether they are generating the pressure upon themselves or it's coming from external forces, and I think it's probably a little bit of a mix of both, but the sense of responsibility that the more money I make, the more security and freedom and happiness I can create amongst the people around me. And so therefore, lemme go back to making money or how do I make the money?
Mel Robbins (00:10:17):
And is there also this pressure among guys that you're measured up based on how much money you make? You know what I'm saying? How unspoken, dunno how
Chris Robbins (00:10:27):
Guys are being influenced by looking around or over their shoulder or whether it's all self created. It's your own expectation level. And that was the other thing that we talked about this morning was just that another area is I'm not good enough. I'm not living up, I'm not reaching the goal, whatever that goal is.
Mel Robbins (00:11:01):
Well, and I can see that if you feel this sense of obligation that everybody else comes first, so much so that you're not even in touch with your own needs and then you also have lost touch with your friends and now you're like, my God, where did my friends go? And then you start to feel this obligation to just make money. All those things become measuring sticks where you're like, I'm just not measuring up in any of these areas. And what's interesting is that the fifth one that you said is how they ultimately end up with you as a coach or attending a retreat or being part of your online community coaching programs that you do. And I think this is an important one for both, for everybody to hear. This is a struggle and an interest that a lot of guys aren't talking about, and what is it
Chris Robbins (00:11:53):
That men are seeking a deeper, more meaningful life, whatever that might mean for them. And even announcing that publicly I think is a little tricky at times, not because guys are not willing to admit that once they arrive at it, but I think it takes some time to arrive at that. Like, oh yeah, there's something deeper that I want to go after that I haven't yet in my life. And like I said, that means something different to every guy out there.
Mel Robbins (00:12:40):
Well, and what's also interesting is that I think when you realize you want something deeper, it probably sets up a major conflict because that would mean everybody else might not come first. And it also means your focus shifts from just merely providing and climbing the ladder and making money to something intrinsic and deeper that might not involve money at all.
Chris Robbins (00:13:05):
Well, you're right, it definitely is a pendulum swing to focusing on self, which is like we talked about a weak muscle, but it can also imply that something is broken and needs fixing, which I think is part of what creates inertia in this conversation with guys because they need to figure out that it's not about it's broken or something has to change. It's about my heart talking. My soul is talking here.
Mel Robbins (00:13:43):
What's normally talking for a guy,
Chris Robbins (00:13:48):
How to solve the problem, how to make the buck, how to lose the pound, how to get the girl, what do my kids need? Is the car need fixing? The list is long
Mel Robbins (00:14:10):
So's the heaviness. Oh my God, I feel bad. I have known you honey for 28 years and I would say that you struggled with all of these things for a very long time. The only time that I didn't see you struggle is when you were launching the restaurant business with your best friend Jonathan, and when it was first happening
(00:14:41):
And you were so alive and fulfilled. And then of course as is the case with most restaurants, it was great. While it was great and then it was horrible when it was horrible. And when you came out of that restaurant business, the story that most of our listeners know, you were a shell of the person that you are now and you really went to work on yourself and you were looking for a way to get together with other men and develop friendship and deeper meaning, and you worked with a therapist and you couldn't find it. So that's why you created Soul Degree. And I think it would be helpful for everybody to hear the fact that you were struggling and how you were struggling with these five things. And I remember a particular moment in time, it was just three years ago, where, do you remember what I'm talking about?
Chris Robbins (00:15:36):
I think so
Mel Robbins (00:15:37):
Where I had asked you if you would be a part of a focus group for the book. I was researching the High five Habit and I asked you if you would please for five days in a row, just add the habit of high fiving yourself in the mirror to your morning routine. And do you remember what you said
Chris Robbins (00:15:57):
That it was a stupid idea?
Mel Robbins (00:15:59):
I believe it was. That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. I'm not doing it. And when we come back, because I think this is a great time to take a quick pause, I want to pick up this story because at the time I didn't realize how lonely you were. I didn't realize how much you were still struggling. I didn't realize the sense of obligation and how you were not taking care of your own needs and how lonely you were both in our marriage and in your life. And I want to go to that moment of what happened next, and we'll tell that story when we return. Stay with us. Welcome back
Chris Robbins (00:16:49):
The energy.
Mel Robbins (00:16:50):
Yeah, good energy. So I'm back with my husband Chris.
Chris Robbins (00:16:54):
Hi Mel.
Mel Robbins (00:16:55):
Hi Chris.
Chris Robbins (00:16:57):
Thanks for having me.
Mel Robbins (00:16:58):
Of course. And I was just sharing with everybody that when I first stumbled upon this High five habit and I started doing it, and then I asked you if you would try it for five days. Do you remember that?
Chris Robbins (00:17:12):
Definitely. And I said NFW,
Mel Robbins (00:17:18):
You did have a very deliberate, I'm not doing that.
Chris Robbins (00:17:24):
Yeah. I immediately thought it was the dumbest idea ever. I've found it ludicrous quite honestly. Let's go to the mirror. Let's high five ourselves, and this is going to solve all problems.
Mel Robbins (00:17:38):
Well, I'm not saying it's going to solve all problems, but I know based on the research, and I know based on the testimonials of 175,000 people and the testimonials that roll in every single fricking day that are so profound that when you take on this habit, it has a shocking impact on your brain and how you see yourself in the person in the mirror. And that kicks open a door to an entirely new set of habits and an entirely new possibility. And we're laughing, but when I kept pushing you because I'm like, dude, you're my husband. I need you to try this. I want you to take the high five challenge. I want you to do this for five days.
Mel Robbins (00:18:27):
You shared with me something that I didn't know and the real reason why you thought this was stupid when you dug a little deeper, it was really sad. And honestly it was scary to hear as your spouse. So would you share with everybody sort of the deeper insight as to why you kind of had that reaction?
Chris Robbins (00:18:51):
I think at the time I related to the idea of a high five to myself as being encouragement, looking forward, the idea that you would high five yourself to inspire forward action. And yet I find that the power of that high five in the mirror is less your hand meeting the mirror and more your eyes meeting your eyes. And that's where the struggle was because when I took that challenge on, I remember really the high five was easy. The looking at myself in the mirror, that was not easy.
Mel Robbins (00:20:00):
Why? Can I hold your hand?
Chris Robbins (00:20:08):
I think it was not easy because there was so much reflection on the past. I was looking back, I was not seeing somebody that deserved a high five. I saw failure, I saw upset, I saw just not living up to the expectation that I think I had set for myself. And I'm sure that society's expectations were also influencing that. But just where I was at the time, I didn't feel like I deserved that high five. So I think that that was probably the underlying reason why my reaction to the idea of doing it was, this is stupid when the truth is that I was not happy with myself and didn't think a high five was deserved.
Mel Robbins (00:21:29):
It's really hard to hear how long you felt that way about yourself. I stood next to you for years, the sink right next to you. And when I looked at you like I saw the world's Best Dad, amazing husband, I saw somebody who was absolutely integral to helping me build my business. I felt grateful for you. I didn't know you thought any of those things. You just kind of put on a smile and carried on. You were so sort of stoic about it. So can you explain, because I think that there's a lot of people, especially men that really beat the hell out of themselves when their career doesn't go how they thought it was going to go, or they get laid off or you become an entrepreneur and entrepreneurship looks fucking glamorous. It's a bitch, especially in the restaurant business. And you had been an entrepreneur. So can you just share just a little bit of context for people so they understand how long you would look in the mirror and see somebody that failed and why you felt that way?
Chris Robbins (00:22:54):
Oh, it had to have been 15 years anyway.
Mel Robbins (00:22:57):
15 years.
Chris Robbins (00:22:58):
Oh, yeah. No, I don't think it was just the unraveling of the restaurant business. That was the beginning of that. I think that I am not sure exactly when, but as you and I know,
Mel Robbins (00:23:31):
Job changes,
Chris Robbins (00:23:32):
Job changes. And I just never, ever related to myself like I was succeeding in a professional sense. And I of course concluded that therein lies the source of my failure because my job here is to be the provider, the proverbial provider, and to go make it happen. And so the discomfort with myself and my progress professionally was absolutely what I think dragged me down.
Chris Robbins (00:23:16):
Looking back on my very colorful career, I am grateful today for all of the things that I did. But having moved through so many different roles and responsibilities and industries and companies and And being an entrepreneur can seem glamorous. I would say that at the time when this whole thing and the High five challenge or the book came out, you and I, we were in the throes of it. I mean, we were talk about just getting up and putting on your boots and just diving into the fire every day. There wasn't at least just didn't seem like there was a moment to actually stop and acknowledge the good. And quite frankly, you weren't acknowledging me like that. You might've seen me as a good husband or father or business partner, but those words weren't being shared between us. And so naturally I didn't get that reinforcement verbally from you. But I also think that being in the thick of it and running as fast and as hard as we were, didn't the idea of stopping and looking in the mirror and seeing myself truly for who I am and the good that I have done and acknowledging all the failures as being a source of powerful learning and all that stuff, fuck that. I wasn't. And that's why I say I think the hardest part was to stand in front of that mirror and see your whole self. And for guys, I think for guys that is for many borderline feels impossible because that's what we do. We just get up, put the boots on and go,
(00:26:19):
Okay, Mel needs something. The wife needs something. The kids need something. The employer needs something. The dogs okay, okay, let me jam in a quick workout. Maybe I'm thoughtful about what my mind, body or spirit needs, but also something that I think is an afterthought for guys. And we put everybody but ourselves first. So the act of standing in front of a mirror and high fiving yourself and looking yourself in the eyes and saying, I love you, outlandish concept, but hugely, hugely important. And it doesn't happen unless you're sort of willing to really stop and slow down and consider that you matter more than your wife, your kids, your employer, the rest of it. And I think that's part of what has, I think maybe over the years dragged me down was paying zero attention to me and paying all the attention or so I felt on everybody outside of me
Mel Robbins (00:27:35):
And providing and trying to prove that you were successful and trying to earn money and live up to also your dad's expectations.
Chris Robbins (00:27:44):
Yeah. Well, I mean if you really want to go back to the root of it all, we could be here all day. But yes, certainly growing up with a father that did what he did and accomplished what he accomplished, and even just the basics of putting on a suit and tie and packing a briefcase and catching a train and working in a high rise in Manhattan, all of those things were just visual cues of what I thought I should be doing. None of which of course played out other than the occasional suit until ties in the rest of it flew out the window,
Chris Robbins (00:28:23):
But just I wasn't being like my dad, which is what I thought I was supposed to be doing.
Mel Robbins (00:28:32):
So you get really emotional when you talk about looking at yourself in the mirror. And I want to hear you talk more about that because I know that it's a bunch of things that come up for you because you're not in that place that you are in where you look in the mirror and see a failure and you don't believe those things about yourself. And the challenge of simply standing in the mirror and looking in the eyes, I agree with you, that's the hardest part of adding this habit to your morning routine. Just put the toothbrush down and be with the person in the mirror, look them in the eyes and don't see a reflection. See a human being who needs you that half of men and women can't or won't look at themselves. And
Chris Robbins (00:29:34):
It's a good point. It sounds weird, but you can look right through yourself in the mirror versus actually seeing yourself.
Mel Robbins (00:29:44):
Yes. And if you aren't looking through yourself, a lot of us look at all the things we don't like. And so even gazing at ourselves is an act of self-criticism. We're like, I hate my this. I hate my that. My neck is saggy. And you have since done tremendous amount of therapy. You and I have done the psychedelic supervised therapies. You are in the middle of getting your master's in spiritual transpersonal psychology. You are getting your training to be a death doula and to sit with people at the end of their life. And you have also started a men's retreat called Soul Degree, and you've been leading retreats with men for four years, Chris, and there's a lot of emotion that comes up for you. Six years, sorry, six years. Terrible wife. Can I get a high five? Cheer me on, even though thank you.
(00:30:46):
Don't let go of my hand. I want to hold your hand. You have been in the presence of so many men and you've even had Oakley reach out to you and had you counsel some of his friends through anxiety and through issues. And I know there's a lot of emotion there. So can you just speak to the men and the boys that may be listening or to the people in their lives that love them about what you've witnessed about the kind of coaching that you lead, the meditation circles that you lead, not from what you want people to know about the importance of being able to look yourself in the mirror and learn how to take actions to truly support and love yourself and that this is a very foreign concept for boys and men.
Chris Robbins (00:31:51):
Yeah, I think that, I mean, I often talk about soul degree as being a space that I hold for men that allows them to slow down when the truth of the matter is it's in the slowdown that all of those beautiful things can take place. And I think that the reason why there's a lot of emotion there for me, particularly with guys, is that, and I speak to all the partners and the spouses, the people that have sons and fathers and male counterparts is that brothers, yes, it is the responsibility of the individual to be able to look in the mirror and see the whole person foibles and all. But why there is a lot of emotion is because in my experience in sitting with men, very rarely do men feel truly seen and heard, and that's not
Mel Robbins (00:33:19):
On an emotional level. So let's go back to the mirror and what you experienced when for five days in a row, you made it a habit to stop at a time in your life where you still were beating the shit out of yourself. And look yourself in the eyes and either say, I love you, which I know is one of your practices to look yourself in the eyes in the mirror and say, I love you. But to me, one of the powers of the High five habit is there's a lot of people that won't say, I love you. And so the physical action of giving the person in the mirror a high five demonstrates love. And so what did you experience for yourself personally in terms of the science working, the shift in how you started to see the person in the mirror?
Chris Robbins (00:34:15):
Well, transformation doesn't happen without repetition. And I think at one point, I don't know, I don't remember if this is in the book, but the idea that there's so many mirrors out there in the world. I mean, you come across a mirror a dozen times a day potentially.
(00:34:40):
And I tried that during the challenge was just, it wasn't just brush teeth in the morning one time, it was whenever I saw a mirror. And I think that that's critically important because this high five thing, this idea, it's not, I know you call it the high five habit, but it's one of those things that doesn't, it almost feels elusive in terms of becoming habitual. And that's because next week or next year, some shit might go down and you might do something or something happens where you really feel immediately lousy about yourself. And so even though there may be some habit of you getting up saying, I love you, or high fiving yourself, your life circumstance is going to get in the way frequently
Mel Robbins (00:35:37):
Correct, just like with exercise or drinking your water or getting a good night's sleep. But when you come back to that moment, because for me personally, it's a moment of joining in with myself. It's a moment of partnership with myself. And you used to coach almost all the teams that our kids played on when they were little, when they were really little. And as a coach, if you think about when you high five a kid, it's either to congratulate them for something that they did
Mel Robbins (00:36:14):
Or it's to help them shake something off and know that there's somebody that believes in them and to get back out there into the game. And for me, whether it's the high five I give myself in the morning after I brush my teeth, and the moment I take to look at myself in the mirror, or like you said, I don't always high five myself throughout the day when I see am mirror.
(00:36:36):
But I'll tell you something, I look at myself differently and I know you do too. And so the importance of this, because it is something that most of us don't do, I think we casually slip into the subconscious where we're beating ourselves up and we're on autopilot. And every time you pass a mirror, you have a chance to look yourself in the eyes and see a person that is worthy of celebrating, of cheering for believing in simply because you're here. That to me is the power of this. What is the power of it for you?
Chris Robbins (00:37:20):
I am still a little steeped in acknowledging that, yes, I'm here but not here physically and how great this is that I'm alive and breathing, yes, that's all amazing, but when I look in the mirror, it's what I see is I guess I can see the age and the wisdom and the learning more that I am more grateful for that, for having been through what I've been through. And so the looking in the mirror and the acknowledging of myself, it's rarely like, okay, you got this all right, your next meeting or your next whatever. Maybe it should be maybe. But like I said, I look forward less than I do look back.
Mel Robbins (00:38:30):
Great.
Chris Robbins (00:38:31):
And today in the lookback, there's more gratitude and appreciation and a willingness to high five those elements of me, which for so many years I hated.
Mel Robbins (00:38:48):
When you look in the mirror, can you describe the person you see today?
Chris Robbins (00:39:00):
I see a man for who he is, and I see a man with different but the same number of battle scars that every other man I think has in the sense of what I've been through, what's worked, what hasn't worked. I see a man who's worked his ass off, but not necessarily with the right mindset or for the right reasons. If there's regret, it's probably the area to dig in for me is just being able to completely release that whatever. I made that choice for that reason at that time with the tools that I had, and that's all I knew.
Chris Robbins (00:40:06):
And so I see today looking in the mirror, somebody that is accepting of those decisions and choices that I made, and even acknowledging the pain and the struggle that I was also blind to, I mean, the idea of sort of coming to terms with having battled depression, I think I was oblivious to that for many years without just didn't even occur to me. And that might've been part of the resistance too, to, I mean, if you're battling depression, a high five in the mirror definitely feels like the last thing in the world you would ever pursue,
Mel Robbins (00:41:02):
But it's something that you should,
Chris Robbins (00:41:05):
Oh, without a doubt, I see a man I love. I see a man I'm proud of, I see a great father, and I see a great partner to you. And I see a man who has accomplished a lot in a short period of time. I see a man who's doing his best and deserves a look in the eye and a high five.
Mel Robbins (00:41:45):
Alright, well I'll give you one. Oh my God,
Chris Robbins (00:41:50):
I think one last thing I want to say to the men out there, any man who feels a sense of failure or that they haven't lived up to their own expectations or those outside of them, any man who's been battling with or has battled with addiction or depression or any of these things that drag us down, I strongly encourage you to start with you and to begin with forgiveness not always so easy, but without a doubt. I know from my experience, not just me personally, but being in the company of lots of men, that we are all working our ass off to do the right thing. And while we don't always believe that the results live up, it's in the forgiveness and the starting with yourself and the self acknowledgement.
Mel Robbins (00:43:21):
And I want to go back to what you said in the very beginning. I know that we're going to get a ton of questions, Chris, wow, how do I begin? That one step that you could take today is trying this habit of even just looking yourself in the mirror.
Chris Robbins (00:43:47):
I am shocked that I'm even saying this given my initial reaction to the high five habit, but I agree, start right there. Start in the mirror
Mel Robbins (00:44:00):
Because if you change the story you're telling yourself about the person you see in the mirror, if you change the actions that you take in how you treat the human being in the mirror, if you change what you are thinking when you look in the eyes of the person in the mirror, that is the beginning of forgiving yourself. You will never forgive yourself if you refuse to look yourself in the eyes with compassion and with forgiveness and with understanding. And one of the reasons why I'm going to keep hammering this, everybody raise your hand and high five the mirror. Because if you're at a place where you are beating the shit out of yourself and you can't stand yourself for whatever reason, whatever you did, we've all done something. You don't have to change your thoughts. The neurotics and the science of simply making the physical gesture of the high five, Chris and all of the lifetime of positive programming associated with it, it has a chemical neurological benefit immediately that is grounded in science. And so the physical act does the work for you, and it starts to plow new neural pathways and it releases dopamine, all of which will help you do the other work that you need to do to walk down the road of forgiving yourself. But if you got to start by simply looking at yourself in the eyes and seeing somebody who is worthy of forgiving because you are,
Chris Robbins (00:45:55):
Yeah, I can't stress that enough. You could forgive yourself all day long walking down the sidewalk, but that's a futile exercise. The mirror is where it happens. And seeing yourself,
Mel Robbins (00:46:13):
It's one of the reasons why I always sign off the show by telling the person listening that I love you.
Chris Robbins (00:46:21):
I love that about how you sign off. And I know you mean it.
Mel Robbins (00:46:25):
I do mean it because I just know how many people can't look at themselves in the mirror. It's just so sad. And I know how much self-judgment we all live with because I've lived with it. I even learned that it's been 15 years today that you really struggled with loving yourself. And it breaks my heart and it feels good to have somebody tell you that they love you and that you're proud of them. And to some extent, unless you're willing to do the work on yourself to let love in from yourself, to demonstrate encouragement, support, and love by looking at your eyes in the mirror or high fiving yourself in the mirror, if you can't do that for yourself, you will never let the love in that is all around you from other people because you don't believe you're worthy of it and you're proving it based on your actions. What are you thinking about? Because I can see you getting moved.
Chris Robbins (00:47:31):
Well, I'm always moved by the way that you sign off and tell people I love you. And it ties back to what I was saying earlier is just my own experience in being in the company of men who they don't feel that, I guess since a lot of what I've been talking about is directed towards the guys. I would leave you with one last thought, and that is that while you're standing in front of that mirror and you're looking at yourself, you may feel alone, but you are not alone in either the struggle you have with forgiving yourself or the judgments or the failures or whatever that may be. You are not alone
Mel Robbins (00:48:30):
At a really wild level. There's actually a human being in the mirror who needs you. It's the one person you spend your whole life with. And the moment that you can look them in the eyes and see a human being worth cheering for, you'll realize you aren't alone. You've got yourself. I want to thank you, Chris, and thank you for speaking directly to men because everything that you're saying is universal. And I do think it's important though for men and boys and people who identify as male that you hear a male voice saying these things. It is critical that other men realize that your emotional health, your sense of self-esteem, and going back to the very beginning of what I said at the beginning of this episode today, is that I think we get self-love wrong, Chris, because we think love is a feeling. But the truth is you only feel loved because of other people's actions.
Mel Robbins (00:49:39):
And when it comes to learning to love yourself, you have to start with the actions, actions that demonstrate love. And when you are able to stand in front of a mirror and look yourself in the eyes, that's an act of love. When you're able to bring compassion and understanding to the person in the mirror and you see somebody that's trying and you see somebody that has regrets and you see somebody who still has an incredible life to live and is worthy of love, that's an act of love When you raise your hand and high five yourself and the human being in the mirror, that's an act of love. And so I love what you said because so many of us know and wish that we felt better about ourselves. We would stop beating the shit out of ourselves. We wish that we weren't in our own way.
(00:50:32):
And all the research also shows that the most important habit that has the biggest impact on our lives is being kind to yourself. It's in the actions, everybody. And so I just love that you shared all that, and I love that you're here and I love you, and I want to share one more story from a woman named Chris. And her story says it all about how you are literally one decision away from a different life. Because when you change the way you see and treat the person you see in the mirror, a whole new life opens up for you like it did for Chris.
Kris (00:51:18):
Hey, Mel, I'm not sure where to start with this email, but I'm going to start with saying thank you. You've helped me gain my identity and life back. Buckle up. It's a long email. My name is Kris. I'm 35. I'm from the United States. Back in 2019, my life was falling apart at the seams, but quietly I was doing the best I could to manage with the tiny amount of tools I had. But starting in 2020 through the beginning of 2021 were the worst times of my life to date all that I had worked for in my life and sacrificed to build the life that I always had dreamt and wanted was rip for me. And there was nothing, Mel, literally nothing I could do to stop it. And then I went awol. I went from being a confident fit, happy, joyful, positive and full of faith, wife, friend, sister and daughter to something unspeakable.
(00:52:17):
I adopted unhealthy coping mechanisms to numb my emotions. I got lost in TikTok wasting hours of my life, but it was my coping mechanism at the time. I was bitter, angry, broken hearted, and crushed at spirit. I started getting stuck in what I now know is rumination and the pound stacked on one after another, along with the shame, guilt, and disgust. At some point, I didn't know what weighed more. The shame and guilt or the literal 35 pounds that I've put on the spaces I once felt safe and fulfilled in were no longer safe because my mind, my anxiety mind, she came with me everywhere. Her name's Patrice. I named her and she wanted to make sure I knew how horrible I was in every moment of the day. How could you make mistakes? You deserve this hurt. You're a disgusting person. You really don't have friends.
(00:53:16):
No one really likes you. They just use you and leave. And on and on. This went. I couldn't even look in the mirror at some, the panic attacks started. I'm talking full-blown, intense attacks where I shake rock back and forth and smack myself. I would keep these attacks away from my family and Mel, at this point, my brain told me, no one loves you, no one, so you might as well not be here anymore. And it was so loud all the time. There was no reprieve until at night when I would open a bottle of wine and have some at dinner, and even in my sleep. I would wake in panic attacks on my way to work one day, I thought while trying to suppress an attack, I could feel coming on. I can't keep living like this. I hate the person I see back in the mirror and all I see is the damaged person and the damage that's been done to me.
(00:54:12):
Over this last year, I started to pull out my phone to see if I could find something to help. And what did I find? A podcast, but it wasn't yours, but one you were being interviewed on. And it changed my life. I was in the middle of cleaning a glass slider door and you said, go look at yourself in the mirror and give yourself a high five. I stopped everything. I walked into the house and looked into a huge round mirror on my client's wall and just started to stare at myself. While I listened to you speak, I raised my hand high, fived myself, and the tears came rolling down. And in that moment, a new life began. The spark was small but profound. I have read and listened to everything I could get my hands on that you have published or put out into this universe.
(00:55:03):
I have re-listened to the high five Habit at least four times, and also had to go out and get a physical copy. And the here's exactly what you need to do. Series has had countless listens on my phone. When a subject seems to come up that I get fixated on and I start being my old self, I pop on an episode from you and my body would instantly calm. My healing journey started in December of 2021. I got myself into therapy. I have been doing tons of research on anxiety, depression, trauma, A DHD, and PTSD, so I can understand what is happening in my brain and in hopes to help others in my community learn to cope and be their better selves. This also helps me to distance myself from my anxiety brain and recognize I am not that thought. I'm a person experiencing the side effects of my traumas or A DHD or PTSD, but Mel, I wouldn't be here today writing this email had I not stumbled upon you and all the good you put into this world.
(00:56:04):
Although now I think after listening to your episode on synchronicities, it wasn't by chance on that day that I first met you, I was done, and I had no more fight in me, and I was ready to call it quits. But today I can say I am a different person, and I'm me again, and I a lot of that to my big sis, Mel Robbins. And if anyone hasn't told you today, Mel, I love you and I believe in you. Ps I've been manifesting for over a year that you would put out a podcast. I'm so glad you're doing one. I'm sure it's a huge undertaking, but thank you for all that you do.
Mel Robbins (00:56:55):
I dunno what to say other than
Chris Robbins (00:56:58):
I's beautiful. It says a lot about the impact you're making.
Mel Robbins (00:57:08):
I just know how long I struggle. And so if you can learn how to get out of bed, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and get your feet on the floor and stand up and get going, you can keep going. And if you can stand in front of the mirror, no matter what's happened or what you're feeling or what's going on, good or bad, and you can look yourself in the eyes and you can see a person who is worthy of love, who is doing their best, who needs your support, who's tired of feeling beaten down, and you can raise your hand and you can give that person a simple high five to demonstrate that you've got their back, that you see them, that you love them, that you're there with them, and send yourself into the day, whatever that day may hold, knowing that no matter what, you see a person in the mirror that can figure it out, that has your forgiveness and that you love. I personally think that's a secret to everything.
Chris Robbins (00:58:29):
I love you.
Mel Robbins (00:58:30):
Oh, I love you too.
Chris Robbins (00:58:31):
That's what I want to say.
Mel Robbins (00:58:33):
I love you too, Chris, and I want to say I love you. I know we haven't met. That doesn't change the fact that I love you and that I believe in you and that I believe in your ability to change your life and to change how you see yourself, and your emails and your voice memos and the things that you're sharing me like Chris just did. This is why I feel this way, because of you and your stories. I appreciate how much acknowledgement that you throw in my direction, but please don't ever forget that it's the person in the mirror who's doing the work. It all starts with you. Okay, you ready? Let's go. I'll do my best. That was a shitty high five. One more. Oh, I love you, babe. Why are you rolling your eyes?
Chris Robbins (00:59:30):
I'm listening to you. Set the table. Let's go.
Mel Robbins (00:59:33):
Okay, come on. Hey, it's your friend, Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. How am I starting this?
Chris Robbins (00:59:42):
You better be good,
Mel Robbins (00:59:43):
Something like this. Okay, here we go. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. That's sounded weird. Hey, it's your friend, Mel. Oh my God. Hey,
(00:59:57):
Hey, hey.
(01:00:00):
Here we go. Hey, that's not it. What am I doing? Oh my God. Oh my God. How about that? I think that's a much better open, don't you? Oh, and one more thing, and no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, bye. God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.
Key takeaways
When a man loses touch with what he wants, it’s often because he’s been conditioned to put everyone else first, until his own needs stop even registering as valid.
You may not realize it, but the man in your life could be aching for real friendship, because somewhere along the way, he abandoned his own needs for the roles he felt obligated to fulfill.
A deep pressure to provide can trap a man in a cycle of chasing money, not from greed but from a belief that his worth and loveability depend on what he earns.
So many men walk around with the quiet belief that they are not enough, that they’ve failed some invisible test, and they carry that shame in silence, even with those closest to them.
If a man starts to crave a more meaningful life, he often keeps it secret—because in his mind, turning inward means he’s broken, not that he’s finally listening to his soul.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
Chris Robbins
Chris Robbins is a business leader, entrepreneur, and advocate for personal development, inspiring others to reach their full potential through his wellness project, Soul Degree. He is also Mel's husband.
Resources
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- To take the High 5 Challenge, go to High5Challenge.com.
- Get The High 5 Habit book or eBook.
- Frontiers in Psychology: High Fives Motivate
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