Episode: 95
5 Ways to Improve Your Breathing for Better Health (With the #1 Breath Expert in the World)
with Patrick McKeown
Mouth breathing might be ruining your health.
The incredible Patrick McKeown, international bestselling author of ten books on breathing and founder and CEO of The Oxygen Advantage, a world-leading breathwork training program, breaks down all things breathing.
Patrick McKeown reveals the 5 ways breathing through your mouth hurts your health and leaves you feeling more anxious and stressed.
Learn functional breathing for better health, more focus, less pain, better sleep, and, honestly, a better you.
Listen on:
Who doesn't want to be more resilient?
Patrick McKeown
Featured Clips
Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:03):
I am what scientists refer to as a mouth breather, and I'm not supposed to be and neither are you. By the way. It definitely signals that I shouldn't be breathing under my mouth. You can live without food for weeks. You can live without water for days, but your breath, you can't go without it. For more than just a few minutes, I fast track this author and the world's leading expert on breath to come teach you and me everything we need to know. So get ready for more focus, less pain, better sleep. Honestly, a better you.
(00:36):
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm normally really excited about what you and I talk about here on the podcast, but today I am so jacked up because I just read this book called The Breathing Cure. It is by this dude named Patrick McKeown, and I am still recovering from what I learned because I basically discovered that for 54 years I have been breathing wrong. I am what scientists refer to as a mouth breather, and I'm not supposed to be, and neither are you. By the way you and I are supposed to be nose breathers. Why? Well, because breathing in and out of your nose, it improves your health, your focus, your sleep, it improves your mood, it reduces your anxiety. And I'm just starting when it comes to ticking off the benefits. I'm so blown away by this research and the breathing techniques that I FastTrack this author and the world's leading expert on breath to come teach you and me everything we need to know.
(01:37):
And this is not going to be a lecture. I will slow him down and I'm going to ask him to walk us through breathing exercises so we can learn as we're listening. But before we welcome him to the show, I want you to just stop and consider how important breathing is. You can live without food for weeks. You can live without water for days, but your breath, you can't go without it for more than just a few minutes. Your breath is the through line of your whole life from the very first breath that you took when you were born, to the very last breath that you'll take on the day that you die. And my mission today is to make every single breath that you and I take from this moment forward truly count. Because the science is undeniable, the quality of your breathing determines the quality of your life.
(02:37):
And I'm just thrilled that today you and I are going to get coached by the world's leading expert on functional breathing for better health. So get ready for more focus, less pain, better sleep. Honestly, a better you. It is an honor to introduce you to Patrick McKeown, who is a fellow of the Royal Society of Biology in the uk. His research is widely regarded. He's an international bestselling author of 10 books on the science of breathing. He's the founder and CEO of the Oxygen Advantage. His techniques are used by Olympic athletes, top business executives, and my personal favorite, the lead singer of Coldplay. In his work with our elite military, he teaches snipers how to change mental states and keep a steady hand, which means he can sure as heck teach you and me how to use our breath to stay steady and perform our best in our day-to-day life by simply leveraging your breath. Please help me welcome Patrick McKeown to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
Patrick McKeown (03:39):
It's a pleasure. Thanks very much, Mel. Great to be here.
Mel Robbins (03:42):
Well, I want to start with what might seem like a really stupid question. Can you explain the purpose of breathing to all of us?
Patrick McKeown (03:54):
Yes. As human beings, what do we survive on? We eat food, we drink water, and we breathe air. And when oxygen meets with the food that we eat, it generates energy. So the powerhouse, the human organism is fueled by the air that we breed and the food that we eat. And in essence, it's as simple as that.
Mel Robbins (04:18):
Well, what we're going to learn today from you, and one of the reasons why I am so excited to talk to you is that while breathing is really simple, most of us are doing it incorrectly. And so I would love to start with how are we supposed to breathe and what are we doing wrong?
Patrick McKeown (04:38):
Yes, that's a good question. We would've been breathing correctly for hundreds and thousands of years, and breathing is very delicate. It's very susceptible to change. It's very susceptible to the food that we eat, the lifestyle that we lead, the trauma, the stress that we experience, the excessive talking, the sedentary lifestyle, the office-based jobs. Many factors influence breathing. And for some of us, we're more prone to developing poor breathing patterns than others. And very often it becomes a habit and we have to think of it's such a vital function. Earlier on, we spoke about how important breathing is, and we as human beings, we can live without air for just a few minutes. And the importance of a function is determined by how soon the organism peres when we switch it off. So it must meet certain criteria and people often talk about the quality of air that we are breathing.
Patrick McKeown (05:41):
Be it in the countryside, be it the seaside. Don't be breathing polluted air. But what about the quantity? What about how we breathe? Breathing should be subtle. It should be light and breath should be undetectable. The perfect person breeds as if they do not breed. Your breathing should be so smooth that the fine hairs within the nostrils do not move. And if you look at the breathing of a healthy person, their breathing is nose, it's light, it's slow, and it's low and it's pretty much undetectable. And if they do physical exercise, their breathing is pretty light for the given intensity of physical exercise they're doing.
Mel Robbins (06:17):
So maybe we should start with what are we doing wrong? What do you want us to know about that?
Patrick McKeown (06:23):
Well, the foundation of breathing is breathing in and out through the nose. Mel, when I'm working with anybody, I'll always ask, what does your mouth do when it comes to breathing? And if you breathe through your mouth, what part of the body moves? So if you look down at your chest and if you take a breath through them out, and as you breathe through them out, you'll notice that your breathing is faster and your breathing is more upper chest.
Mel Robbins (06:44):
Yes, I can't get it down. I feel like it stays tight just under my boobs. It's right in there.
Patrick McKeown (06:53):
And then we have to ask, well, what effect does that have in the physiology? Well, mouth breathing, faster breathing, and upper chest breathing is activating a greater flight or flight response. So how should we be breathing? Our breathing should be in and out through the nose. And there was an American ear, nose, and throat doctor back in 1976 called Dr. Morris Cottle, C-O-T-T-L-E, and he said that the human nose is responsible for 30 functions in the human body.
Mel Robbins (07:19):
Really?
Patrick McKeown (07:20):
Yeah, I couldn't find his list. So I wrote my own list of 30 functions.
Mel Robbins (07:25):
Really? I
Patrick McKeown (07:25):
Could go to them. Now if you watch,
Mel Robbins (07:27):
I want to hear about some because I think, okay, I smell, I sniff if I tend to get very prone to sinus infections and bronchitis and that kind of stuff. So it also gets clogged. Those are basically the three things that my nose does.
Patrick McKeown (07:43):
Yes, when you breathe through your nose continuously, oxygen uptake in the blood increases by nearly 10%. And that's discovered back in 1988 by a researcher Swift, when you breathe through your nose during physical exercise, the gas carbon dioxide is higher in the blood and discovered back in 1904 that when carbon dioxide increases and blood pH drops, the red blood cells released oxygen more readily to the tissues and organs. So if you during rest or during physical exercise, breathe in and out through your nose, you're going to increase not only oxygen uptake, but also oxygen delivery to the working muscles and tissues and organs, including the brain.
Patrick McKeown (08:24):
We can influence the blood flow to the brain by changing our breathing patterns. And it's not about taking the full big breath. Other factors that you wouldn't consider are visual spatial awareness. So throughout our evolution, we, for example, we were in a wide open space, we had to be able to see what was ahead of us, but also to scan the environment for predators.
(08:46):
And that's higher with nasal breathing versus mouth breathing. Memory and attention is higher with nose breathing versus mouth breathing. There's greater recruitment of the diaphragm and the diaphragm. Breathing muscle isn't just for respiration, but it provides stabilization for the spine. So 50% of people with lower back pain have dysfunctional breathing. And as you breathe through your nose, you spoke about bronchitis, we have to think of the gas called nitric oxide. And this gas was first discovered on the exhale breadth of the human being in 1991. This gas is antiviral, it's antibacterial. It redistributes blood throughout the lungs. It helps to open up the airways, so people with respiratory complaints, but people who are prone to covid, when we think of the hundreds of thousands of people with asthma and bronchitis and bronchiectasis and COPD and different respiratory illnesses, why are we leaving them breathe through their mouths and nobody seems to be telling them, breathe through your nose.
(09:47):
And that was my first kind of steps into the whole world of breathing. My own personal journey was having asthma. I was a mouth breeder for years because if we have inflammation in the lungs, that same inflammation will travel up to your nose. And when your nose is stuffy, you're two to three times more likely to have a sleep problem, to snore, to have obstructive sleep apnea. And of course this then is affecting your mental health. This is affecting your concentration, this is affecting your attention span. Now, I'll talk about even for children. Karen Bonac is a researcher from the United States, and she did a study in Stratford upon even in the UK, looking at children from age six months to 57 months. So it was over a few years, she looked at 11,000 British kids, children who were snoring or apneic, stopping breathing for two breaths or more during sleep and mouth breathing.
(10:40):
Those kids, if untreated by age five, had a 40% increased risk of special education needs by age eight. Now we're not just talking about quality of life, we're talking about lifetime impact of chronic mal breathing and 25 to 50% of studied childhood population, mal breath. So Mel, this is a topic that doesn't even come top of the list and actual fact it doesn't even come on the list. And in the last few years we've started to see a greater awareness of breathing and probably because it's too simple. But at the same time, breathing is not that simple either.
Mel Robbins (11:19):
I love absolutely everything that you said, and I want to take a gigantic neon yellow highlighter and make sure as you're listening to us, you understand the single biggest takeaway that Patrick has just explained, which is if you want to have a change in your health, a change in your stress, a change in the pain that you may feel or the sleep that you cannot get, you have a free treasure trove inside your body if you simply start to change from mouth breathing to nose breathing. And we're going to unpack what that means. I have a question about a couple things that you said. I didn't want to interrupt you, but you said that breathing in and out of your nose increases the amount of oxygen versus breathing out of your mouth.
Mel Robbins (12:20):
Why does that matter?
Patrick McKeown (12:22):
Well, I think it's very important. Oxygen is really, it's the fuel for the human being. And if for example, we are not getting enough oxygen delivery to the brain, if there's an insufficient blood flow or oxygen delivery, it can increase brain cell excitability. So brain cells become more excitable. We're thinking more, we're more prone to anxiety. I remember writing a book back in 2010 called Anxiety Free, and I spoke about this paper that was published in 1988, and the paper said that the brain by regulating, breathing, regulates its own excitability. And then I was listening to a podcast by the neuroscientist, Dr. Andrew Huberman about two months ago, and he cited the exact same statement and sentence. And it's funny how things come around, but this is the importance of breathing and the importance of knowing how to breathe right? If for example, we are breathing the way you were described during the introduction, and that's kind of the acute panic attack, but say for example, somebody who's just breathing a little bit faster, a little bit harder upper chest breathing, irregular breathing patterns, and that's present in a minimum of 10% of the general population, but up to 75% of the anxiety and panic disorder population.
Mel Robbins (13:43):
Wow.
Patrick McKeown (13:43):
So 75% of the population with anxiety and panic disorder have dysfunctional breathing. It's not just that stress levels change our breathing. Of course, when we are stressed, our breathing changes, but our everyday breathing is feeding into our stress levels. Who doesn't want to be more resilient? And the other thing about stress, when we have a lot of mind activity, it's impossible to do mindfulness. We have to be absolutely, we have to think of this ourselves the next time that we are having a really bad day. And there's a lot of thoughts going through our minds, and I don't suffer from anxiety, but of course things happen. And that's the way it is, that human beings, I can change my breathing patterns without having to be so aware of my breath to help to bring the body and mind into balance. And that's the thing about breathing. So coming back to oxygen delivery and blood flow, if for example, even getting to the working muscles, if there's insufficient oxygen getting to the working muscles, well, we're more prone to fatigue in terms of the brain I spoke about. So we have 50,000 miles of blood vessels throughout the human body and our breathing is influencing how or not are they? And people with poorer breathing are more likely to have cold hands and cold feet. It's not just the blood circulation in the hands and feet, that's problem. It's throughout the body.
Mel Robbins (15:03):
I feel like I might be your test case here because now I'm thinking, well, I wear socks to bed because when I touch my husband with my feet, he's like, ah, you're so cold. So one of the things that I read on your website and in your books that I absolutely loved was you said breathing is not just for relaxing. It is an incredible tool when you get intentional about how you breathe every day to fight stress. And I would love for you to teach us right now how to stop being a dysfunctional breather and to breathe in a functional way in and out of our nose to get the maximum health benefit.
Patrick McKeown (15:49):
So the first exercise that I'm going to start off with is small little breath holes. And this is going to introduce you to a means of helping to activate a relaxation response. And then from that I'm going to show you an exercise to decongest a nose.
Mel Robbins (16:05):
Oh, great.
Patrick McKeown (16:05):
If you have a stuffy nose, inevitably it's going to cause out breathing. And then I will do breathe light and then breed low and
Mel Robbins (16:13):
Slow.
Patrick McKeown (16:14):
So I'm going to go from one sequence into another, and this can be, it will be no more than five minutes, and we're going to cover a bit of ground. So I think people will have to replay this. So the first exercise, Mel, that I would like you to do when the mind is racing and you're not feeling informed of focusing on your breathing, simply hold your breath in an exhalation. Take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose and pinch your nose and hold and hold for 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Let go and just breathe normal. Now for about two to three breaths or even four breaths not to change your breathing, just breathing normal. And again, take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose and pinch your nose and hold, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Let go. And now just breathe normal for three to four breaths.
(17:12):
So you're just breathing normal. The small breath hold will have to stimulate the vagus nerve, which secretes a neurotransmitter called a subtle choline, which causes the heart rate to slow down and the brain interprets that the body is safe. And again, take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose and pinch your nose and hold, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Let go. Breathe in through your nose. So now you're just breathing normal for three to four breaths. And in a couple of repetitions then I'll show you how to go from this to decongesting your nose. And again, normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose. And pinch your nose and hold, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Let go and breathe in through your nose. Also, as you hold your breath, nitric oxide is pooling inside your nasal airway. Then when you let go, you're breathing in, you're carrying this nitric oxide into your lungs. Nitric oxide is antibacterial, antiviral. It's a bronchodilator. So for bronchitis, this is your natural way to help open up the lower airways. Last one. And again, normal breath in for your nose out through your nose, pinch your nose and hold. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Let go. So now we're going to go onto the nose and blocking exercise.
Mel Robbins (18:36):
Can I ask you a question?
Patrick McKeown (18:37):
Yes, yes.
Mel Robbins (18:39):
So when you say breathe normally you mean not like how we normally breathe. You mean breathe in and out of your nose, right?
Patrick McKeown (18:50):
Correct.
Mel Robbins (18:50):
Okay.
Patrick McKeown (18:51):
Correct. Well, that's how we should be normally
Mel Robbins (18:53):
Breathing. Well, most of us are probably mouth breathers. So I just wanted to make sure everybody's getting the coaching that when he's queuing us to breathe normal, Patrick means in and out of your nose. And one thing I will tell you is even after the first round of breathing in and out of my nose and then breathing in and out of my nose and then pinching and holding for five, I started to feel almost that sensation of going down in an elevator. You really start to feel the pressure that you're not even aware that is built up in your body start to lower. So it had an immediate impact on me, and I just wanted to point that out. Is that normal to experience that?
Patrick McKeown (19:41):
I think people will have different experiences. That exercise is very much an exercise we do with people who are prone to high stress racing mind panic disorder. See, the thing about breathing is we as human beings, breathing is our, it's such an important function, but every time that we get into a difficult situation, our breathing changes. And when we start playing with the breath, we can often relive the situations in our history. So I'll give you this example. Somebody who is coming into me with panic disorder, every time that they've had a panic attack in the past, they've been breathing faster and harder and upper chest and they're feeling suffocated. Now, even just placing attention on their breathing can make them anxious.
Patrick McKeown (20:26):
And if I start doing any breathing exercises that alter the volume of breathing and it brings on air hunger, it can tip them into a panic. So we have to be very careful too about breathing in terms of tailoring the breathing exercises to suit the individual. Now the next exercise I'm going to show you will decongest nose. However, not to do this. If somebody is prone to panic disorder or anxiety or pregnant or cardiovascular issues,
Mel Robbins (20:54):
Oh, okay.
Patrick McKeown (20:55):
Now, despite that, it's actually relatively safe. So I would like you and do this. You do all of these exercises, you always do them. You'll tune in your body and do them to the level that you're comfortable with.
Mel Robbins (21:09):
Okay?
Patrick McKeown (21:10):
So with this exercise, Mel, you take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose, and you pinch your nose. Just gently hold your nose and just nod your head up and down, holding your breath and keep holding your breath. Keep holding, keep holding, keep pulling your breath, keep pulling and let go there and breathe in through your nose. So when you do a breath hold after an exhalation. So if you hold your breath after a normal exhalation, that will have to decongest the nose. Now we need to do it five or six times.
Mel Robbins (21:43):
I got worried about how much you were counting. I'm like, how long am I holding this? Oh my God.
Patrick McKeown (21:49):
So whenever you're ready, take a normal breath in through your nose. Only normal. So I'm going to have you just do that again. So remember about the subtlety of the breath, just a light breath
Mel Robbins (21:59):
In, Patrick. There's nothing subtle about me. Here we go. Light breath in, everybody
Patrick McKeown (22:04):
A light breath into your nose and a light breath out through your nose. And just gently hold your nostrils to stop breathing and nod your head up and down as you hold your breath and keep relaxing into the body as you're holding your breath. Now it's a very normal thing to hold your breath. Kids, if they go swimming, they'll do breath holes all the time. So it's a very normal human trait to go into the water and hold their breath. Now, as you hold your breath here, it's activating a slight stress response, which will help to open up the nose. And now let go Mel and breathe in through your nose. So the key to help decongesting the nose is to hold the breath for at least 30 seconds or so. But I would say when you start off, always start off gentle and just tune in on how is your body reacting to breath tolling.
Mel Robbins (22:53):
I'll tell you what just happened. I literally feel like my nostrils are now the size of a Tootsie roll. They widened up and all of a sudden it was super clear because my allergies are starting to kick in now that it's going summer to fall in the United States. And it worked that second time in particular, like,
Patrick McKeown (23:19):
Yeah, no, it's a very reproducible technique. I've used it with thousands of people. And we had a small pilot study involving 26 people at a hospital here in Limerick in Ireland, and a three month follow-up symptoms of rhinitis, which are stuffy nose and runny nose, et cetera, had reduced by 70%. But I thought that pilot study, which was published as an abstract, I thought it would lead the way to generate some curiosity into a bigger study. It never happened. And that study took place 10 years ago. But despite that, the exercise works
Mel Robbins (23:54):
Well, Patrick,
Patrick McKeown (23:55):
It's for people to try.
Mel Robbins (23:56):
We're here now. We want to know. And I felt like
Patrick McKeown (28:45):
But really when it comes to activating relaxation during rest, it's the speed of the exhalation. If you breathe out fast, it's a stressor. So if you breathe in fast and out fast, it's a stressor. It's not just how you breathe that way during stress. But if you deliberately breathe that way in your every day, it's you're telling the brain that the body is under thre. You're going into this fight or flight response. And of course your brain is here to protect you, and your brain wants to get you out of the situation. So you don't want to be breathing fast, going into a boardroom meeting, put it that way, because while you are going in, in person in physical, your brain wants you to get out of there as quick as you can. So coming back to mouth breathing, if you breathe out through the out, there's less resistance to your breathing. It's a faster breath out. So
Mel Robbins (29:34):
It's stressful breath. It's a bigger, bigger exit ramp because the mouth is bigger than your nostril. And so breathing in and out of your nose, if I am tracking correctly, one of the added benefits is that the exhale is going through something smaller than your mouth. So it slows you down. And in preparing to talk to you, we came across that Stanford study that you cite that is on your website too, that, and I thought this was super cool, that your breath is like your brain's remote control, that there are actually neurons in your brain watching your breath. And when you start to breathe faster or out of your mouth, it signals to another part of your brain that something's wrong. And so I want to make sure you listening to Patrick and all of this research and the 10 books that he's written, what he is saying to you is that learning how to breathe in and out of your nose has extraordinary benefit for lowering stress, for lowering anxiety, for being able to focus. You not only work with people, Patrick, that are struggling with anxiety or sleep apnea, but you're also coaching athletes and high performers because you are breath and being somebody that can breathe in a slow and steady fashion out of your nose helps you with focus. And so can we break down just the mechanics of the I deal normal breathing, like how many breaths in and out? If you're breathing normally in a healthy way, in and out of your nose, should you take in, let's say a minute.
Patrick McKeown (31:23):
So typically during rest it's about 12 to 14 breaths. But the only caveat there is how much air is involved with each breath, the tidal volume. So we can't just focus on the respir respiratory rate. We also need to focus on tidal volume because ultimately it's the volume of air that we are breathing. And if we breathe too much air, less oxygen is delivered throughout the body. So this is another aspect in, there's a myth out there that if you want to bring more oxygen throughout the body, you take this full big breath. But if you take this full big breath, you're getting rid of too much carbon dioxide, the loss of carbon dioxide will close your blood vessels to constrict and also red blood cells to hold onto oxygen more readily.
Mel Robbins (32:05):
Can you
Patrick McKeown (32:05):
Come back to your,
Mel Robbins (32:06):
Can you coach me through this? Because if I take a big breath, if I go in through my mouth and I'm like, I'm trying to get a breath, what happens as I go to get oxygen is my shoulders come up and I feel my chest pinch and I feel my stomach suck in, and I actually can't get a deep breath because I can't get it below my boobs. I can't get it down into that really satisfying full breath. Is that what you're talking about when you talk about the flow or volume or whatever?
Patrick McKeown (32:36):
Yeah, there's two aspects. One is when you were talking about there, you're talking about shallow breathing, which is not ideal either. So we do want to breathe low, but good recruitment of the diaphragm,
Mel Robbins (32:45):
How do you do that? And
Patrick McKeown (32:46):
The best way to do that is in and out through the nose. So for example, if you place your hands either side of your lower ribs,
Mel Robbins (32:54):
Okay, so everybody in, unless you're driving a car, want you to, I want you to cup your rib cage. Okay, are we cupping the rib cage or we're going underneath it
Patrick McKeown (33:02):
Just at the base of the ribs? So just at the base of the ribs.
Mel Robbins (33:06):
Got it.
Patrick McKeown (33:07):
And as you breathe in, you're just gently directing your lower ribs to move outwards.
Mel Robbins (33:13):
Oh, how do you do that?
Patrick McKeown (33:14):
And as you breathe out, you're directing your lower ribs to move inwards. And the aspect is to hold your sides. Because normally when people put it on their belly, they're pushing and pulling their belly, irrespective of their breathing. So that's why you have your hands on your sides. So Mel, as you breathe in, you're just gently guiding your ribs out, and as you breathe out, your ribs are gently moving in. Now that's a deep breath in the true sense of the word. We don't hear it. You're breathing in and out through your nose and you're breathing slow and you're breathing low. Now we can slow it down if, for example, during rest, we want to have the ideal breath to help to bring the body and mind into balance. That's between 4.5 to 6.5 breaths per minute. So let's practice that with low breathing for just one minute
Mel Robbins (34:07):
If
Patrick McKeown (34:08):
You like.
Mel Robbins (34:08):
Yeah, I would. Can I ask a question?
Patrick McKeown (34:11):
Of course.
Mel Robbins (34:12):
Before we do this exercise. So what I'm gathering from this is that I'm a mouth breather with bad breath who's causing myself stress and anxiety because I'm signaling to my brain with my shallow breathing that something's wrong and that I always thought deep breathing. I practice yoga was this belly breath. And so I've always focused on inflate and deflate the stomach and what you're talking about when you cup kind of the bottom of your ribs, I want everybody to get this. You can watch it on YouTube, but for those of you listening to Patrick and to me, I want you to really get this, that it's really more of a horizontal thing. You're not inflating your stomach, you're making your bottom rib cage expand and come back in. And I'm realizing that so much of my breathing pattern has been almost like vertical up and down, and I hadn't been thinking about that.
(35:07):
So that was super, super helpful. And you said that in a normal, just going about your life, you're not trying to relax, you're just trying to focus. You're going through your day, you're not trying to stress yourself out, you're getting the benefit of normal in and out of your nose breathing. You said that it would be somewhere between 10 to 14 breaths in and out of your nose in a minute. And now what you're about to show us is that for relaxation, you can do this kind of deeper breathing where you kind of fill your diaphragm horizontally, your rib cages move out, but it's for four to six times a minute. Is that what we're about to do? Yes. Okay, great. I just want to make sure everybody's following
Patrick McKeown (35:53):
And just coming back to the diaphragm, like when the diaphragm, which is the main breathing muscle, and it separates her chest from her abdomen. So during inhalation, the diaphragm is moving downwards and it's the movement of the diaphragm downwards that draws air into the lungs. But as the diaphragm is moving downwards, you will have some movement to your front. So you will have some belly movement and movement to your sides and movement to your back. But I always think it's much better to focus on your sides because very often people when they focus on their belly, they're pushing and pulling their belly, which has nothing got to do with their breathing. And it's a good gauge of degeneration of what's called intraabdominal pressure, that when you breathe in that your ribs are gently moving out because this is what's giving you good indication of the recruitment of the diaphragm and from that dense stabilization of the spine. So the diaphragm breathing muscle is really important because when you breathe with good recruitment of the diaphragm, it's also a calming effect in the mind.
(36:52):
The diaphragm and the brain are connected when we think of the phrenic nerve, and then we think of the mental health conditions such as schizophrenia and schizophrenic. So earlier on you were talking about that work by Stanford, which I think is so cool that there's a structure in the brain that's literally spying on our breathing. Now we can use that to our advantage. Don't breathe fast. Don't breathe shallow because you're telling the brain that you're under thre and your brain is going to arouse you from sleep and put you into this stress mode. So now we're talking about, well say for example, we have five minutes to spare, and instead of just scrolling aimlessly, wasting time on our mobile phone, give ourselves a little bit of attention, getting attention out of the mind and holding your attention to your breath, which in turn is training your brain to be focused, but not just about awareness.
(37:40):
It's also about changing the physiology. So if you have your hands, again, just gently on either side of your lower ribs, and as you're breathing in that you're breathing in for a count of five, so you're breathing in 2, 3, 4, 5 out, 2, 3, 4, 5, in 2, 3, 4, 5 out, 2, 3, 4, 5, in 2, 3, 4, 5 out, 2, 3, 4, 5, in 2, 3, 4, 5 out, 2, 3, 4, 5. Now I will say, Mel, say for example, if we have somebody with pretty poor breathing and they're breathing 20 breaths per minute, I would say don't go from 20 breaths down to six. All of a sudden gently soften your breathing, but do it slow it down to a level that's comfortable for you. So if you're starting off, what you could be doing is maybe breathing in for two seconds and now for three. So that's slowing down the respiratory rate down to 12 breaths per minute in for three seconds and out for five. So during rest we always need to think of the exhalation. It should be about one and a half to two times the inhalation, the length of the inhalation.
Mel Robbins (39:09):
Could you say that again about the length of the exhalation versus the inhalation with the normal nose breathing? Because you've said repeatedly the exhalation is the most important part.
Patrick McKeown (39:25):
Yeah, the speed of the exhalation during rest should be about one and a half to two times that of the inhalation, and you can play with it. I'll give you an example. If I'm having a meeting that's pretty intense, I don't want to go into that meeting breathing fast and shallow. I will deliberately in that situation, nobody even knows what I'm doing. I could be sitting down or I could be standing outside the door waiting to go in. I will just take a soft breath into my nose. I don't even time it a soft breath into my nose and a really slow and relaxed and gentle breath out because by doing that, I'm telling my brain that everything is okay. And I'm also taking my attention out of my mind and onto the breadth to put the critical mind aside because I want to go into that meeting and I want to be in a state of mind that I'm fully there, that I'm listening with all of my attention, not just lost in thought. Now I would say don't wait until the important meeting before you start to do it. Start bringing it into your way of life.
Mel Robbins (40:33):
There was a story you were going to tell us.
Patrick McKeown (40:35):
Yes. So there's a really well-known doctor from Italy called Bernardi, and he did a study back, I think it's in 2000. He looked at the breathing that was taking place when people were saying prayers of different fates. So one was mantras and the other was the rosary, which is a prayer from the Catholic fate. And whether it was a mantra or the rosary, both of them lowered the risk party rate down to six breaths per minute. Now, I think there's something really brilliant in this that when we think of people who are saying prayers, it wasn't just from a spiritual and psychological aspect,
Patrick McKeown (41:20):
But it was also the effect it was having on their body and mind physiologically. And it's so cool that this information was always out there and now it's time to start it.
Mel Robbins (41:34):
Well, it's one of the reasons why I asked you the question in the very beginning, what's the purpose? And I was thinking about it kind of from a neurological scientific standpoint, but there's something so much deeper that it really is the quality of your life that you have within you. If you take the advice and you apply this research to your life and you start to teach yourself how to use the tool of normal nose breathing and longer exhales, and you keep kind of talking about this soft and gentle that this is something that your body was hardwired with a natural intelligence. And so it's really cool that the research shows that when people are in a state of being present in a state of purpose, in a state of deeper connection, that you naturally, your body naturally drops in to this kind of breathing. And one of the things that I wonder is what are there other specific types of breathing that people need to know about that either reduce stress or that you should use in certain situations?
Patrick McKeown (42:58):
Yes, when it comes to breathing, you can downregulate, which is inducing relaxation, or you could upregulate. So for example, if you want to stress your body and mind a little bit, well, you could go for a jog which are mat closed. It's a pretty safe way to do it.
Mel Robbins (43:16):
Jog with your mouth closed,
Patrick McKeown (43:18):
Jog with your mat closed.
Mel Robbins (43:19):
Do you have to be in amazing shape to do that? Hiking up the mountain that I live on, I'm panting like a dog. I don't know that I could get up there with my nose.
Patrick McKeown (43:29):
Well, when you're walking up the mountain, go over a pace that you can sustain nasal breathing and if necessary, get a nasal dilator, which just taps to gently open up your nose, but also breathe nose slow and low because your ventilation is going to be more efficient. But physical exercise anyway is a stress, but it's a good stress, but it should be dosed according to the individual needs of the person. I do breath holes with athletes. I will have them breathe in and out and hold their nose and they sprint for 40 meters without breathing.
Mel Robbins (43:59):
Wow.
Patrick McKeown (44:00):
They then rest for 30 seconds and they sprint again for 40 meters without breathing. Or I could have a 400 meter sprinter. And in some of their trainings when they're well warmed up, I will have them nose sprint for 360 meters and the last 40 meters that they have to stop breathing. So we do exercises to stress body and mind. If you want to stress your body and mind using breathing techniques, just dip your toe into the water and just see how your body feels. And you don't have to hyperventilate for 30 breaths and then do a long breath hold that's doing the entire thing. If you want to do a stress, maybe hyperventilate, if you want to do it for five breaths and then do a breath hold, but it's comfortable for you. We don't teach hyperventilation. And the reason being is because my whole thing about breathing is I want to get person's everyday breathing. Right? Let's get the foundation right first.
Mel Robbins (44:54):
I love that.
Patrick McKeown (44:54):
And then if they want to do the peak, we can do that.
Mel Robbins (44:59):
Get the foundation for everyday life nailed first in and out of the nose, low and slow.
Patrick McKeown (45:07):
But the other thing, Mel, is anybody who's waking up at a dry mouth in the morning, there's been any studies that investigated nose versus mouth breathing during sleep. The people who were breathing through their nose naturally during sleep always had a deeper sleep. So you can imagine a mouth breather during sleep.
Patrick McKeown (45:26):
They're breathing faster, they're breathing harder, drop her chest breathing. I'll give you this example. Do the sound of a snore through your mouth and it goes like this.
Mel Robbins (45:36):
It does like a pig.
Patrick McKeown (45:40):
And now bring your lips together and try and snore through your mouth with your lips closed only through your mouth, try and snore. So try and snore through your mouth, with your lips together.
Mel Robbins (45:51):
I can't do it,
Patrick McKeown (45:52):
So it's not possible. So mouth snoring stops. Once we get the mouth closed. The second snoring then is nasal snoring, which goes like this.
Mel Robbins (46:00):
Yes.
Patrick McKeown (46:02):
Now if you take a very soft breath in through your nose and a really slow and relaxed and a gentle breath out and a very, very soft silent breath through your nose and a relaxed and a slow and a gentle breath out, as you breathe very softly in and out through your nose, try and snore through your nose. So you will see it's more difficult.
Mel Robbins (46:28):
I can't.
Patrick McKeown (46:28):
So mouth snoring, we can stop once we get them out closed nasal snoring, we can significantly reduce the whole aspect in sleep. Medicine has focused on the airway, but they haven't focused on the person's everyday breathing. And it's our everyday breathing that's influencing or breathing during sleep. And this comes back to remember that study by Stanford. If you are breathing fast during sleep, it arouses you from sleep. Who gets aroused from sleep? People with insomnia, they're breathing fast during their sleep. Their brain is interpreting that the body is under res and the brain wakes them up and they're there two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning, thinking, thinking, and thinking and thinking. And then they're waking up exhausted. And of course that's going to affect their productivity, their focus during the day. So we need to look at the big picture.
Mel Robbins (47:21):
So how does breathing impact your sleep
Patrick McKeown (47:28):
In terms of insomnia, there's two times it can manifest and insomnia affects about 30% of the population.
Mel Robbins (47:34):
Wow.
Patrick McKeown (47:35):
And 10% have it chronic. One is that we go to bed at night, but we don't fall asleep readily. Typically we should fall asleep in a few minutes. That's an ideal situation. But if we have overstimulation of the mind, we're not going to fall asleep so readily. So it's very important to be able to go into relaxation before we go to sleep. Now that would involve, I would say use blue light filter glasses and follow asleep hygiene. Your bedroom is cool, it's airy, it's dark and all of that stuff. But also we need to tell the body that we're going into rest and digest.
(48:12):
So you could be sitting down, you might be watching some light tv, you might have your blue light filtered glasses on, and as you're sitting there, really take a soft breath in through your nose almost at your breathing less air. And that's what I would like you to do. You're taking a really soft breath in through your nose and you're having that light and a really slow, slow, slow, relaxed, gentle breath out. And then when you need to breathe in again, instead of taking your normal a hundred percent of the breath, maybe take in about 70% of the breath in and then a really soft and slow gentle breath out. And the whole aim is to breathe about 30% less air into your body than what you're normally used to. You're doing it correctly if you feel a slight air hunger. Now, as you do that, pay attention to the sli in the mouth.
(48:59):
So we'll continue for one more minute. I would like you to under breathe, Mel, I would like you to breathe in a way that you feel that you're not getting enough air. How do you do that? Take a very, very soft, gentle breath in almost as if your breath in is imperceptible and a really relaxed and a slow and a gentle breath out. So gently soft and then slow down your breathing so that you're taking 30% less air into your lungs. If you get stressed, just take a rest. But keep working on this because now what you're doing is you're telling the brain that everything is okay and pay attention then to the S live in the mouth. When we get stressed, our mouth tells us because our mouth goes dry, when we are ready for rest and digest rest, we feel sleepy digest, we have increased water is sli in them out. So when we alter our breathing, we're stimulating the vagus nerve, which is secreting that neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which is telling the heart to slow down. The brain is interpreting that the body is safe and the brain is also spying on our breathing at the same time and interpreting that the body is safe. So we feel sleepy. And we do this for 10, 15 minutes before we go to sleep.
Mel Robbins (50:15):
I know that you recommend people try this tape on their mouth when they sleep. And I tried it for the first time last night. I did not have this O-ring, so I used packing tape. I know that that's probably not what you recommend. And when I pulled it off this morning, I think I gave my upper lip a wax, but I put it from the nose down so that the sides were exposed. And I learned something really interesting. I put the tape on my mouth so that I would be queuing myself to nose breathe, and it's how I sleep and I'm a fantastic sleeper. And I realized I sleep predominantly with my mouth closed. And my husband on the other hand, he has this sound that he makes that goes, it drives me fricking crazy. I know it's sleep apnea. I also know that 1 billion people around the world have obstructive sleep apnea, 1 billion.
Key takeaways
If you're breathing through your mouth, you're triggering a stress response, signaling to your brain that you're unsafe, and keeping your nervous system on high alert.
Nose breathing improves oxygen uptake, boosts brain function, and activates your body’s natural relaxation system with every slow, low, silent breath.
The way you exhale tells your brain whether to fight or relax. So if you breathe out fast, you're telling your brain there's danger, not calm.
Children who mouth breathe during sleep are at significantly higher risk for lifelong learning issues, behavioral problems, and mental health challenges.
You can train your nervous system by slowing your breathing to just six breaths a minute and lengthening your exhales. This is how you build emotional resilience.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
Patrick McKeown
Patrick McKeown is a renowned breathing expert, author, and educator specializing in the science of optimal oxygenation and respiratory health.
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Book: The Breathing Cure
Imagine a breathing technique that can increase oxygen uptake and delivery to the cells, improve blood circulation, and unblock the nose. Perhaps it can help open the airways of the lungs, enhance blood flow and oxygen delivery to the brain, improve sleep and bring calmness to the mind. It might even restore bodily functions disturbed by stress, build greater resilience and help you to live longer. You might think this description sounds farfetched. But it isn’t.
Tap into your innate resilience. Fire up your potential. Enhance your health.
BREATHE BETTER NOW!
Resources
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- Patrick McKeown: Nose-breathing vs. mouth breathing: the science.
- National Institutes of Health: Pediatric sleep disorders and special education.
- The Huff Post: Sleep problems in children linked to special education needs.
- CDC: Promoting sleep health in families with young children.
- National Library of Medicine: Effect of prayer and mantra on cardiovascular rhythms.
- Stanford Medicine: Your breath and anxiety.
- National Library of Medicine: Myofunctional therapy to treat obstructive sleep apnea
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