Episode: 321
If You Only Listen to One Podcast Today, Make It This One
with Emma Grede
If you’ve ever felt behind, stuck, or doubting yourself, you need to hit play. Mel calls it “the single best conversation” she has ever recorded.
This is the most motivational, eye-opening episode that you will ever hear, and it will give you the roadmap to become the person you’ve always wanted to be.
Today, Mel is joined by Emma Grede. Emma is one of the most successful self-made businesswomen in the world and the force behind three billion-dollar brands: SKIMS, Good American, and Safely, and the host of Aspire with Emma Grede.
But this is not a conversation about business. It’s about creating an extraordinary life, even if you’re starting from nothing.
In this conversation, Emma will give you the mindset, the strategy, and the motivation to bet on yourself when the world doubts you.
This is a masterclass in grit, vision, and relentless execution. By the time it’s over, you’ll stop waiting, stop wishing, and start moving.
Listen on:
You are not better than anyone else, and nobody is better than you.
Emma Grede
Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:00:00):
Today on the Mel Robbins Podcast, one of the most motivational episodes you will ever experience. In fact, I'm going to go on the record and say, this is my favorite episode. To date, you are not prepared and neither was I for the absolute force of nature. That is Emma Grede.
Emma Grede (00:00:18):
Anything is possible if you really put your mind to it. And this is the big thing that I want specifically women to understand when you have nothing and I have been there, how you do anything is how you do everything. When I made sandwiches in a deli, I made the best sandwich. When I worked in the cupboard packed in cloves, I would do it with excellence.
Mel Robbins (00:00:41):
I love you so much. There's just a grit to you. And there's grit plus an amazingly huge heart.
Emma Grede (00:00:52):
I was brought up in East London, which is a bit like the rough side of the tracks. I'm the oldest of four girls raised by a wonderful single mom. Life was a little bit tough. My mom did the best that she could with the little that she had. I wanted to live a different life and work in something that was enjoyable because again, where I grew up, everyone did a job to pay their bills. I had spent 10 years building my career at the intersection of brands and fashion. I had a fantastic understanding of what works in fashion and where the white space was. I really understood what was missing. Got it. Where was there a problem that I could find a solution for? And Good American was a solution. Most women are massively underserved by the fashion industry. And so I pitched Chris and Chloe.
Mel Robbins (00:01:41):
Pull up a chair and put us in the meeting. In terms of how that meeting went.
Emma Grede (00:01:48):
I really approached that meeting saying, hey, I have this golden, brilliant thing and this is going to be the next big thing in fashion. So what happened next? It's a disaster Mel.
Mel Robbins (00:02:01):
What is kind of the biggest lesson from your experience launching Good American?
Emma Grede (00:02:06):
I would say that my biggest learning has actually been, that might not be what people want to hear, but that is the truth. That's what they need to hear. Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I am so happy to be here.
Mel Robbins (00:02:24):
I am so excited to have you here. I can't wait to learn from you. And I know the person that is here with us is excited too. And so I'd love to start by having you just share with the person who's here, what could they experience that could be different about their life or their future if they take everything that you're about to teach us and share with us today to heart?
Emma Grede (00:02:52):
I love that as a place to start. I honestly think about my life and more specifically my career as a bit of a blueprint for what happens when you a take responsibility for yourself and when you really manage your thoughts carefully. And I think if there's anything that I've learned, it's that the combination of those two things will take you really, really far in life.
Mel Robbins (00:03:20):
So taking responsibility for yourself and your life
Emma Grede (00:03:25):
And choosing your thoughts really carefully.
Mel Robbins (00:03:27):
Choosing your thoughts really carefully.
Emma Grede (00:03:29):
Yes, because it's a choice.
Mel Robbins (00:03:30):
And when you do that, what happens
Emma Grede (00:03:33):
When you do that? Somehow your life starts to align. And it's really interesting because it's a practice. I feel like I'm in practice to be the woman that I want to be constantly. And so I have to really think about those things. And so when you bring those two things together, it allows you to be really, really purposeful and the outcome starts to just manifest. It starts to actually happen.
Mel Robbins (00:03:58):
So a lot of people know that you're a judge on Shark Tank. You are the co-founder of several billion dollar companies. Congratulations on making the Forbes 100 self-made women list.
Emma Grede (00:04:10):
Thank you.
Mel Robbins (00:04:10):
But most people don't know where this all began.
Mel Robbins (00:04:15):
And so I want to go back to the beginning to East London and talk about what life looked like when you were little.
Emma Grede (00:04:23):
Well, I was brought up in East London, which is a bit like if you were born in Harlem or Crenshaw or something like that. Maybe the rough side of the tracks if you want to see it like that. I'm the oldest of four girls raised by a wonderful, wonderful single mom. And I guess life was a little bit tough. My mom did the best that she could with the little that she had. And I always think about our relationship dynamics is she was the dad, I was the mom and we had three kids together. I was a very parentified child, if you like to say it that way. And I have a very, very close relationship with my three sisters. As a result of that, I was really part of raising them and looking after them. I used to get up in the morning and iron three school shirts and make three pack lunches and send them off to school. And sometimes I wouldn't go to school myself. I'd be exhausted by that point. But I was really raised by a family. My mom's family, her sisters, her mom were huge, huge parts of our life.
Mel Robbins (00:05:26):
It checks out honestly, because you are so driven and you are the kind of person that I feel like you see something, you just do it. How do you think your childhood and that experience of taking care of your little sisters has impacted and shaped who you are today?
Emma Grede (00:05:45):
In so many ways and good and bad, if I'm honest, I learned at a very young age to take a lot of responsibility for myself, but I was always on very high alert. Where I lived wasn't particularly safe. And so you had to think a few steps ahead constantly. But it also gave me this idea that I needed to get far away from where I was. I was very aware that my circumstances would be limited if I stayed where I was from. And so I had this idea that I would need to work really, really hard to get out of this place, but I knew I would in a way. I just felt like, I dunno what I'm going to do. I dunno how this is going to work, but I've got to get out of here.
Mel Robbins (00:06:23):
I think a lot of people feel like that.
Emma Grede (00:06:24):
Oh yeah,
Mel Robbins (00:06:25):
Totally. And so if the person that's listening or watching right now feels that way, but they're not sure that they're going to get out, what would you say to them? You have already said two things. You've got to take responsibility for yourself, for your life, for where you're going, and you got to choose your thoughts. So if you have this sense, there's more for me. I got to get out of here. I want to have something different. But then your thoughts are like, ah, it worked for Emma, but I'm not that kind of person. What would you say?
Emma Grede (00:06:56):
Well, the other thing is, Mel, so many people that come from a place where I come from, there's this sense that you'll be abandoning where you come from, that actually it's the wrong thought to have. You're like, this is who I am. This is where I come from. This is part of me. And what I would say to that person is you don't have to leave where you come from in your heart. I'm still the girl I always was. I'm the girl from Plato. I will always be that girl. I just left that place. And so you don't have to give up who you are and what made, if you leave that physical space, you can still be and have that heart of gold and that sense of scrappiness and whatever made you great. And I think that that is really, really important because that's what troubled me so much that I would leave the people that made me me, that I would leave those family members and those friends that were so pivotal to me as I grew up.
(00:07:50):
The truth is that those people are with me every single day. That's just who I am. And I would say that anything is possible if you really put your mind to it, but you are not going to manifest your way out of anything. You have to take those thoughts and everything that you want and you've got to couple it with something. And for me, that has been hard work. There is no secret. The secret is I had the vision and I put it together with some really, really hard work. And that's what you have to do.
Mel Robbins (00:08:20):
I love you so much. I really do. Because there there's just a grit to you and there's grit plus an amazingly huge heart. And so what a beautiful thing to say that you can change where you are, but that doesn't change who you are. Exactly. Love that. I'm still me clearly. You also said something earlier about how you are constantly asking yourself and reminding yourself about the woman you want to be. What kind of woman do you want to be when you think about it?
Emma Grede (00:08:57):
Well, I think that for me, what's been really important, and actually you get to a place where you're successful and there's this sense of responsibility in me. And again, I think it comes from where I come from that I think if you are still that person inside, because I still feel like 15-year-old Emma who was hanging around on the streets, just making things up in her head and dreaming of what could happen. I want to impact those people. I want to get everything that I've learned and everything that I've had and figure out how could there be a million more Emmas. That's what consumes me now. That's what I think about every single day.
Mel Robbins (00:09:40):
That's what we're going to do with this conversation because there is so much to learn from your story. You took a very unconventional path to success.
Emma Grede (00:09:49):
You could say that, Mel.
Mel Robbins (00:09:50):
Yeah. So were you good at school?
Emma Grede (00:09:52):
I was terrible at school. I was so bad at school. And the interesting thing is I'm severely dyslexic. Same. And I didn't find out that I was dyslexic until I was in my early twenties. And so school for me was just always a struggle. It wasn't that I was particularly naughty or disobedient, it just was so hard. And for me, at that point in my life, I was like, if it's difficult, I'm just going to push it away. I am just going to react to it.
(00:10:17):
And if I'm really honest, I had some anger issues that I had to work through because where I come from, if something wasn't working, if something was hitting you in a place of uncomfortableness, you were going to smack it out the way. And that's what I learned. I learned over and over again to react with anger. And so I really had to train that piece of me out. And I've done a lot of work and I've been in therapy since I was 19 years old, figuring those things out. What were you angry about? I think that I grew up in a place where blame was just part of the culture. Nothing was ever our fault. It was always about somebody else over there, this neighbor, the government. I was never taught to take responsibility and figure something out. And I feel like they're the cornerstones of my personality now.
(00:11:06):
It's like I tell my kids every, I'm like, figure it out. Just figure it out. And taking responsibility is something that I've just, it's ingrained in me now, but it wasn't then and I was angry that there was seemingly no easy path for me. I thought it should have been easier. I thought that because I was working so hard, it should have happened faster. And you have to imagine, I'm 42 now. I've done a job that I love for five years, not longer. For five years, I've spent my entire career doing things that have been okay and I've enjoyed ish, but I had never had the dream of the dream job. I've just kept going and going and going to get closer to the thing that it is that I love. And I think that that is maybe not that we talk about enough in media, in society right now.
Emma Grede (00:11:58):
You are on a journey. It doesn't just happen. This idea of overnight success that we've built, especially around entrepreneurialism and around starting a business, it's a lovely story, but it's not a career path and it's not really truthful. And so I thought I was owed something, and it wasn't until I kind of got to about 19, I was like, nobody owes you nothing. That things started to fall into place for me.
Mel Robbins (00:12:22):
I think I just heard the person who's watching and listening, share, share, share. Because we can spot that attitude in other people. I would imagine. I have two people in my mind right now that I'm like, that's the issue. They're sitting around, pissed off, blaming the world when they are fully capable of picking themselves up exactly where they are and figuring it out. What would you say to somebody who is stuck in that blame? Does think that they are owed something so easy to get stuck in that place yourself, where you convince yourself that it's not going to be easy or you convince yourself that you are owed something and then the anger does consume you.
Emma Grede (00:13:09):
And let's be honest, some people are dealt an unfair hand. Of course, sometimes you've got stuff to be angry about. Sometimes it's not something that you made up in your head, it's your reality. I'm a woman, I'm black. I grew up poor. I think I had something to be a little bit mad about, right? Having said that, it wasn't serving me. And I think at the end of this, we've got to say, is this thing that I'm holding onto, is it optimal? Is it working for me? And if it ain't, you got to let it go. And that's just that because what is useful to us is the idea that we're going to have this baggage, but we're going to leave it and we're going to use what is in us to propel ourselves forward. If what you've got is keeping you stuck, leave it walk away. How the hell do you do that? I think the real way that you do it is by having some acceptance of it and saying, you know what? This is what it is. And I accept that and that's okay. And I'm still going to move forward. I'm still not going to allow this to hold me back. That is not my story. It's just not what I want.
Mel Robbins (00:14:18):
And did you know what you wanted?
Emma Grede (00:14:20):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (00:14:21):
What did you want?
Emma Grede (00:14:22):
You know I just wanted to
Mel Robbins (00:14:22):
I love that yes
Emma Grede (00:14:22):
I wanted to escape my situation. I've been obsessed with fashion since before I can even remember, but for me, it was a means of escape. It was like I grew up in London. It was all about the supermodels. Naomi Campbell and Kate Moss and all the cool designers, and I used that and that industry, those people looking in the magazines as a means of escapism. There was something to dream for, something to look forward to, something I wanted to get out of where I was so bad mailed, I can't even tell you. I wanted to live a different life and work in something that was enjoyable because again, where I grew up, everyone did a job to pay their bills. I didn't know anyone who had a fulfilling career. It just wasn't even part of the vernacular then. So for me, it's like I just wanted to get closer to something that I loved.
Mel Robbins (00:15:19):
That is such a universal experience.
Emma Grede (00:15:22):
Oh, yes, it is.
Mel Robbins (00:15:23):
And it's really important to recognize that if you're feeling that way, to lean into the desire. You don't have to love fashion, you don't have to want to do a podcast, but there's something about recognizing that you want more. That is where this all begins.
Emma Grede (00:15:41):
Oh yeah.
Mel Robbins (00:15:42):
Until you do, you can't take responsibility for what that more might be.
Emma Grede (00:15:46):
It's so true. Again, I'm a mom of four now, and the only thing I care about is that my kids care about something.
(00:15:55):
You've got to have something that you feel strongly about. And for me, it is was and will ever be, always be fashion. That's just what I loved. But it's always, we have to remember that we have to have something to hope for. That can be anything, but you've got to have something in your sights that you are striving for. And I think that that's really important just as a basic human emotion. You got to have a thing, a goal, an expectation, but something that drives you. And if you cannot figure out what that is, if you don't know what you should pursue, you should pursue yourself. You should figure out, how do I make myself better? How do I eat better? How do I exercise better? How do I get better habits? How do I get better? And that thing will figure itself out.
Mel Robbins (00:16:42):
Why is that important?
Emma Grede (00:16:43):
It's the key of life because we're all on a journey. And if that journey is not to leave the world better than you found it for you to be better than you were when you started, then what are we all doing? Right. We are in a lifelong journey. I'm obsessed with quotes, and one of my favorite ones is the more you learn, the more you earn. It's a Warren Buffett quote, and I love Warren. I'm obsessed, but I think about that all the time. And I am a person that has, and again, despite my dyslexia, I'm gobbling up information all the time. But it is in an effort to make myself better, to grow myself, to expand the way that I think. So I say to people all the time, that is what you should do. You should pursue the highest version of yourself that you can possibly be within that you will figure it all out.
Mel Robbins (00:17:31):
I'm in.
Emma Grede (00:17:34):
Well, you definitely are in Mel, come on this is what you're doing every day.
Mel Robbins (00:17:39):
Well, what's interesting, Emma, is you're so on fire that I keep forgetting that I should ask you a question because I'm like, is there more coming? Because keep going. I'm like, I'm on the Mel Robin shot. Oh my God. Well, one of the things that I was curious about, because I do agree with you that if you have to have something, and the other thing I wanted to say about it is I have no interest in fashion. And I'm saying that because what you are interested in personally doesn't have to make sense to somebody else.
Emma Grede (00:18:11):
No.
Mel Robbins (00:18:11):
Because it's not for somebody else.
Emma Grede (00:18:13):
No,
Mel Robbins (00:18:13):
It's for you. And if you don't have that thing that gets you out of bed, whether it's a distraction or an interest or a passion or a person, then make yourself the reason why. What is the first step of that journey to pursuing yourself?
Emma Grede (00:18:32):
So it's really interesting because I think there's a couple of things that you can do. So let's just put health and wellness to the side for one second. It's a huge part of it, but let's talk about what it means to be excellent, to be excellent.
Emma Grede (00:18:47):
I really understand the power of how you do anything is how you do everything.
(00:18:54):
And this idea of excellence, of taking it seriously, how you wake up in the morning of taking it seriously, how you prepare your breakfast, taking it seriously, how you show up in work, how you see people. Do you go morning or do you go morning? How are you? And do you listen and respond back? All of these things matter. They matter to who you are. They matter to how you're seen, and they matter to how you are viewed. When I made sandwiches in a deli, I made the best sandwich. When I worked in the cupboard in a PR agency, packing clove, I would fold those clove beautifully. My boxes, my tissue was amazing. My sticker was in the middle. I would do it with excellence, every little thing, because that is what makes people gravitate towards you. When you take everything that you do seriously and you take an element of pride in anything, it draws people in. And you have to work a lot of dog jobs before you get the thing. Life is very, very long and it goes in chapters. And so what I say to people is, be excellent at where you are at whatever you are doing because that has some kind of invisible magnetic pull.
Mel Robbins (00:20:07):
Terry Crews tells this incredible story about being dead broke after getting out of the NFL. And he's moved his wife and four kids to LA and he thinks he's going to be an illustrator. And then all of a sudden the digital illustration stuff is happening and he is at the end of his rope, depressed, can't get work, and he gets a job sweeping, literally a custodian on a movie lot. And he kept himself going by saying, how would I sweep this floor if somebody was paying me a million dollars to do it? And to me, what you are saying is if you simply don't know where to start, you just gave the most brilliant advice on the planet. What would it look like to wake up tomorrow morning and start the day with excellence? What would it look like to wake up tomorrow morning? And how would you do it if somebody was paying you a million dollars to just get out of bed and make your bed? What would your morning look like? What happens internally? Because there is the thing that people are drawn to you because it is true.
Emma Grede (00:21:20):
Because the vibration within you literally changes. You vibrate a different energy. If you wake up with a smile on your face and you say, maybe if somebody's in the bed with you, good morning, darling, I made you a cup of tea. What does that say? That says, I value you. The morning is good, and here we are together. And I just acknowledged you. Who doesn't want to wake up like that? And if nobody's next to you and you stretch your arms like this and you put nice pajamas on because you care about yourself and you make your bed and you walk away and you're like, look at that bed. That's the dream. And that's what I say to my kids. I remake their beds, by the way, but that's not the point. It's like how you do anything is how you do everything. And that is the key. You've got to sweat the small stuff and you have to start somewhere. And when you have nothing, and I have been there, that works because that starts to set the tone and people notice they really, really notice.
Mel Robbins (00:22:22):
I want to go back in time this,
Emma Grede (00:22:29):
What is this Mel
Mel Robbins (00:22:29):
It's a photo of you when you're 17 years old.
Emma Grede (00:22:33):
Oh, look. And these two are still my darling. I'm literally having dinner with these two in London next week, Sarah and Chanel.
Mel Robbins (00:22:39):
Well, I'm going to give you that photo as your present for being here on the podcast. You're 17 years old, you had just left college. So tell us about that moment and what was happening in your life.
Emma Grede (00:22:54):
Well, I have to say that was a crushing time for me because I left home when I was 16. The circumstances at my house had just become untenable and I left home and home was an hour and a half away from where I lived. So I get this terrible high rise apartment. I had no fridge, no oven. We kept out milk on the balcony because in London it's that cold that you could kind of keep milk fresh for two days if you left it on the balcony. And I enrolled at the London College of Fashion. So this for you guys is what you would call senior high. I'm 16, dropped out at 17. And you can imagine I fought so hard to get into that college. And so to drop out wasn't like I can't be bothered. It was that I couldn't continue. I couldn't make ends meet.
(00:23:41):
I couldn't figure out the train fair. I couldn't figure out how would eat, how the couple of days a week that I had to work because you're in college four days. And then I was working every day. I just couldn't make it work. The math wasn't math as we would say now. And so it was a bit of disappointment. But what was interesting is that actually that's when my life started to fall into place because for me, I was like, okay, how do I keep learning? How do I keep close to the dream? And in those days, you could go around and find work placements. And so I thought to myself, I'll just work for free. I'll get as close as I can to the career that I think I want. And I went from PR agency to design a showroom from one terrible bottom of the barrel job to another. And Mel, I would do everything I could to get these work placements I was sending because again, in those days there wasn't emails. So it was just sending letters out and nobody was responding to my letters. And so I started hand delivering letters. I was like, maybe they're just not getting them. It was kind of ridiculous. And every now and again, there would be a break
Mel Robbins (00:24:52):
Kind of brilliant actually.
Emma Grede (00:24:54):
I mean, for me it was just tenacity and I couldn't even imagine that it was because of me. I never took it personally. I didn't think I'm not good enough. I didn't think I'm not worthy. I thought they didn't get the letter because I'm so good and I have so much to offer and I'm going to work so hard, they just must not know yet. And so I just kept going and going and going and go in until somebody said Yes, okay, come in. You can work here for free for a couple of weeks.
Mel Robbins (00:25:23):
And for somebody who's listening who's like, I need that, I need that tenacity because I send an email and then I sit back and then I think something's wrong with me.
Emma Grede (00:25:32):
It's never about you, Mel. It's never ever about you. And this is the big thing that I want specifically women to understand. We have become as a group obsessed with this idea of perfection, that it always has to be perfect, that it always has to be as it is in the movies. And that is just not, it's not my experience. My whole journey has not been linear. It has been one great thing happened and then nothing, literally nothing. In fact, sometimes it just went down. But you cannot take it personally because it's never about you. You can fail and it's just the thing that thing didn't work out. It is not that you don't work. It is not that you have something wrong with you. So for me, I would just dust myself off. I'd be like, that wasn't my moment. That wasn't for me. It's not my time. And just keep going.
Mel Robbins (00:26:28):
Well, I would also imagine that if you're also feeling the pressure of buying food and paying rent, you also don't have a choice. There's a certain level of stress that you feel if you cannot make the ends meet or you barely do because you can't stop.
Emma Grede (00:26:48):
You have no choice.
Mel Robbins (00:26:48):
You have no choice.
Emma Grede (00:26:49):
You have no choice.
Mel Robbins (00:26:50):
And so one thing I wanted to ask you, because what you said about excellence was mind blowing and 1000% accurate.
Mel Robbins (00:27:03):
How do you pursue excellence versus the trap of being perfect? What's the difference between excellence and that perfectionism trap that women get stuck in?
Emma Grede (00:27:14):
That is such a beautiful question. I think that you have to learn, and this is going to sound, and I don't want it to sound, we all have a different measuring stick, right?
Mel Robbins (00:27:27):
Yeah.
Emma Grede (00:27:27):
What is perfect to you is not perfect to me. And I think that we have to be realistic with ourselves. And so what I've done in my life is really think about myself. I'm not thinking, I'm not looking in the media, I'm not on social. I'm not in a magazine trying to live up to that version. I'm like, what is my version of excellence based on where I come from and who I am, what's good enough for me? I'm not comparing myself to anyone else. You and I both love that same quote, right? It's like it's you against you.
Mel Robbins (00:28:03):
Yes,
Emma Grede (00:28:03):
That's it. And that's where you have to be very, very honest and very self-reflective because if you are going to be in the comparison game, you will never be satisfied. You will never be happy.
Mel Robbins (00:28:14):
Okay, I think I just got it. I want to extract what you just said and give it back to you and see if I heard you correctly. I think I just got the difference. You ready? So perfectionism is when you are focused on the outside. Perfectionism is when you are measuring what other people are going to think about what you just did. Excellence is on the inside because excellence is about the effort in. And whether or not the effort that you put in is good enough for you. That right there, that's really a great distinction. I've never thought about it that way. I've always thought about perfectionism because so many women in particular struggle with it as something that you're doing internally.
Emma Grede (00:29:06):
No, it's coming at you from every angle all the time. And you have to be very, very careful as a woman that doesn't start to define you, that doesn't seep into you because the minute that goes inside, you are in trouble. And I have this great friend Diane von Furstenberg. She's the most insane and incredible woman ever. But she talks about this idea of the most important relationship you'll ever have is the relationship you have with yourself. And so you got to be real careful that your biggest enemy isn't living between your two ears, right? It's like this conversation that goes on all day that's relentless has to be kind. It has to be compassionate, it has to be empathetic. These are all things that we give away to other people if you're a good person all the time, but it starts with you. You have to give that stuff to yourself first and foremost. And when you start to do that, and when you start a daily practice that says, I am going to behave like this to myself when I speak to myself, this is how I'm going to be. That rewires you.
Mel Robbins (00:30:16):
Well, even talking to yourself that way is in itself its own form of excellence, right? Because you operate that way in the world, that level of excellence with other people. And so it's a beautiful way to think about talking to yourself in a kind and cheering and empathetic way as a form of excellence with yourself. I love that. What would you say to somebody that is kind of at the beginning of the journey in their career right now, trying to figure it out?
Emma Grede (00:30:45):
Mel? Honestly, what I would say is that everything you want is on the other side of what you are working towards. You just got to be working. It's all there. Everything you want is there. It's just got to find you working and that's it. You can't think your way into what you want. You can't wish it. You can't hope for it. You got to do. And that's where this perfectionist trap is poisonous for us. Because if you think that you have to do it perfectly or it has to come in some spectacular way or this thing that you want to do has to be really big, it just start. Just do something and know that if you have forward momentum, if you are moving in the correct direction of travel, you will get there, but you have to be moving.
Mel Robbins (00:31:38):
And what about if you don't know if you're in the right direction?
Emma Grede (00:31:42):
Then you just go, because I never knew. I never knew. And the fact is sometimes I wasn't going in the right direction, but at least I was going somewhere. Because what happens is you pick up all this information along the way if you're smart, and when you make mistakes, again, it comes back to that idea of how am I speaking to myself? Because if you treat yourself like a good friend,
(00:32:05):
Imagine that your friend messes up, she messes up. You don't go, you absolute silly cow. You go, darling, let's talk about this. What happened? I love you anyway, let's go through it. Where were the mistakes? How are we going to do things differently next time? That's what you have to do for yourself. So know that that is inevitable.
Emma Grede (00:32:24):
And you know I've kind of trained myself around this rule of thirds that I have in my head and that has really, really, really helped me to underst what is the of thirds? So the rule of thirds is something that I remember hearing this when I was a bit younger, and it's like I almost live by it. So if you are doing something difficult, if you are chasing a dream, if you are on the road to whatever it is, you are going to be happy about a third of the time and the other third of the time, you are going to be like, oh, life is kind of all right.
(00:32:57):
And the final third of the time, you're going to feel terrible. Now it sounds like a marriage basically. It can be applied to marriage too, but the point is that we shouldn't feel good all the time. It's just part of how we are conditioned right now to imagine that life is this Instagram reel of wonderfulness and that ain't the truth. So if you can learn to accept, do you know what? On those really bad days when you feel really crappy, you're like, that's okay. In fact, I'm exactly where I need to be because I'm going to have those days and I'm going to have some of the midling days and then I'm going to have these great days. And so if you go off track, that's all right. You have to know that you can come back. And when you are on fire, you also better be real humble. You're going to know that those stinky times are coming too. So it's a really lovely way to keep yourself in balance. And I think about it probably daily, a third and a third and a third,
Mel Robbins (00:33:56):
The rule of thirds. I love it. Now I'm going to think about it daily. And I know that the person that is listening is going to think about it daily and share that rule a third with the people that they care about. Because it is true that when you're going through the crappy part, you think this is going to be that way forever. And we all hear, oh, it's temporary. But I love a rule.
Emma Grede (00:34:16):
Yeah, I love a rule.
Mel Robbins (00:34:17):
I love,
Emma Grede (00:34:18):
I love a rule. I love a rule.
Mel Robbins (00:34:20):
And so I love being able to say to myself, even though it's been a crappy decade, this is just a third of a third, it's just one third of what I'm going to experience.
Emma Grede (00:34:33):
I love that you say a decade because people tend to overestimate what they can do in a year and underestimate what can actually happen in a decade. I have been in America for eight years this July 4th, and I'm a different Emma. That eight years didn't just happen in eight years. It happened the 30 years before the 40 years almost before. So we have to think about what it actually takes and time. And I feel like as a young person, you can be in such a rush. It's like don't be in a rush. Life is long. Life happens in chapters. And so as a young person, all you need to say to yourself is, I am willing to work and I'm willing to accept the direction of travel. And it will be going forward some of the time, and it will be standing on a spot some of the time and it will be going backwards some of the other time, and all of it is fine.
Mel Robbins (00:35:29):
Could you speak to the pressure that people feel when they're young to just it all in? One of the things that I see from especially people in their twenties and early thirties is that I got to do it all. I got to travel, I got to do this. I got to find the person. I got to figure out my dream career. And I love that you're saying when you are young, just slow down.
Emma Grede (00:35:55):
Well, let me tell you what I really believe works. Tell me we are in too much of a rush. Having said that, your twenties is the time to try some stuff. And that is what I really believe in. I could look at all of my friends now, got a couple of them in front of me, and I could draw a line down the middle of those that are successful now in their forties and what they did in their twenties. Did they go for it? Did they take a bunch of risks? Did they work really hard? Did they try a bunch of stuff? And those that perhaps kept the partying going maybe a little too long when you don't have responsibility. Most of us have children a little bit later now. You don't take on responsibilities in terms of financial responsibilities like a mortgage until a little bit later. Now your twenties are the time to try. And I remember a lot of people saying to me in my twenties that you work too hard. You need to have more fun. The truth is, if I didn't do the twenties, I did, I wouldn't be where I am now.
(00:37:00):
And so you've got to try a few things. And again, don't think that they're all going to work out, but there is a time in your life where it makes sense to put a few bets out there to throw a few things at the wall to go outside of your comfort zone. That is the moment, that's the decade because you're going to spend your thirties figuring it out, what do I actually want to do? And putting in the hard work. And then hopefully by the time that you get to your forties, you've become proficient at something and you can start to choose your choice. But in my experience, not before that.
Mel Robbins (00:37:31):
Well, what's interesting is I'm sitting here looking at you and you're 42, and I'm thinking, God, at 42, I was $800,000 in debt. I had liens on the house, my husband's restaurant business was going over. I was unemployed. Three kids under 10 about to look like. That's when my life fell apart.
Emma Grede (00:37:49):
And look at you now.
Mel Robbins (00:37:50):
No shit. So it took Takes some time. Yeah, it takes some time. And one of the other things I want to point out though is you're 42 and when you drop out of college, that's 25 years ago. And I want to remind you as you're listening and watching that, you also said in the very beginning, I've only really enjoyed what I'm doing for the last five years facts. And it's really important because we don't talk about it enough that it isn't going to be fun. It isn't going to be a party the whole time. You are not going to feel like you are pursuing your passion as you are on the journey and figuring it out. And one of the things that also is interesting about your career though is it took you 10 years between that moment where you dropped out and you're hustling and you're trying to find anybody that will let you just be somewhat near fashion for free.
Emma Grede (00:38:50):
For free
Mel Robbins (00:38:51):
Doing anything. So you can be close to the thing that you want. Would you speak to that moment where you feel like, oh my God, I've been at this for a while and I'm just not getting traction and the job that I have is paying the bills grateful to be able to pay my bills. I'm not going to dis the job that's paying the bills, but it's not aligned with where I thought I would be. How do you stay motivated? How do you keep the dream alive when the first things that you're doing don't really feel like they're going anywhere?
Emma Grede (00:39:30):
And let's be honest, we all have those times. I had a lot of jobs like that. I really, really did. And what I've always tried to do is find, maybe make up a little bit in my head, but I've tried to find the glimpse where is something in here useful? So you're working like an office job with some kind of clerical role. You are learning to be organized. You are learning what it takes to be the back office support. You are looking at everything that's happening around you. And let me tell you, Mel, and I know this for sure, the fact that I have done all the bad jobs, the fact that I have been there is what makes me a great leader. Because today, not only can I appreciate every single person around me, I've done those jobs. I know not just what it takes, but I know how it feels and my staff know that I know how it feels. And there is a different appreciation level for somebody who comes into leadership having done all of the things.
(00:40:39):
And so not only do I look for those glimmers and tell somebody that this job that you're doing that feels pretty mundane isn't because there is value in all work. You just have to find that and you take small pieces. And I think about my experience now as it's a collective of all the things that I've learned. I learned customer service when I was making the sandwiches and when I was delivering the papers, I learned the power of the mornings. And when I worked in the closet at the fashion company, I learned how to do a really horrible job with a smile on my face. Just put it on. And it's like all of those little pieces will take you somewhere and you have to keep in your head and tell yourself, life is long and whatever I'm doing, it all adds up to something just like all your relationship experiences. And it can feel hard when you are in them, but you can look back and say there was a reason that thing. But you've got to understand hindsight isn't just a fine thing, it's nothing. It's what makes us who we are eventually. So you've just got to keep that in the front of your mind
Mel Robbins (00:41:42):
That this is leading somewhere.
Emma Grede (00:41:43):
Everything is leading somewhere, everything, all parts of it.
Mel Robbins (00:41:48):
Absolutely. You started pushing on doors early. I mean, you literally would just walk right into the room and many rooms where you probably felt like you didn't belong.
Mel Robbins (00:42:01):
What gave you the confidence to stay when you would get into a room where you're like, I'm not sure I belong here, or I'm not sure this is going to work.
Emma Grede (00:42:12):
The way I was raised was really interesting because confidence has never really been my problem. I was raised by my wonderful mom and she taught me, she was like, Emma, you are not better than anybody else, but nor is anyone better than you.
(00:42:27):
And that stayed with me. And so when I walk into a room now, then even though with my terrible education leaving school before I should, even though I'm highly dyslexic, I know my gifts, I know my strengths, and I know that whatever it is that any of us has to bring is valuable. There is value in all of us. And so again, you have to really anchor into that piece of you. You have to believe that you have something special, unique, and even if it's not special and unique, it's what you have to bring. So make the most of it, figure it out,
Mel Robbins (00:43:05):
Figure it out,
Emma Grede (00:43:06):
Figure it out, package it up, and go in with some confidence that at least there's just not another you, right? There's not another you in that room. So whatever you are bringing into that space is something that's not there because there isn't another you. And you have to think deeply and carefully about what those things are and what you add to an organization. And I've done all of that, but in the beginning, you've just got to believe that you have something unique to bring.
Mel Robbins (00:43:31):
Well, you also touched on this earlier about excellence and how when you operate with a level of excellence, even if it's managing the energy at the crappy job, you can't stand, people are drawn to it.
Emma Grede (00:43:43):
Yes,
Mel Robbins (00:43:44):
Drawn to it. They really are. Do you have any advice for how you can get yourself into a room? You know what I mean? There's a lot of people that are aspiring to launch a business or raise some money or just put their art out there or be noticed or get the interview. Is there something, some move that you can make or some way that you have found or maybe an example of somebody that got your attention about how you get into a room, you were literally like, I just want to be adjacent to whatever. I'm going to knock on that door.
Emma Grede (00:44:18):
Yeah. I'm mean the first thing Mel, is you've got to get out of your own head. I speak to a lot of people, I've been trying this thing and I've been thinking about this for a long time. It's like, what did you do? What did you do? Did you call store? You want to sell your thing in the store? Do you call them or do you just hoping for somebody to notice you? You want to be an artist? Are you making art? Are you putting your work out there? Again, nobody is looking for you, no one. So you again, have to take responsibility and start, get out of the starting blocks and go and do something. And again, it comes down to this idea of fearing what is on the other side, fear of rejection, fear of being told, no fear that it won't work. So you've got to get past that point and know that that's all there. And that may well happen, but that's okay too. And I honestly think that the big block that people have is getting started
(00:45:17):
Feeling so vulnerable that they can't even start. You can't write a business plan and then file that business plan and then go, I'm going to start this business. I've got a plan. It's like, what's in the plan? You've got to go. You've got to get the thing made, you have to write the email, you have to ask the question, and you cannot network your way into starting. That doesn't work. People right now always say to me, I wish I was invited to this networking event. It's like, that's not the thing. A network is a tool, a way of getting things done. The things that make the difference between starting and not starting is never really what you think. It's never the people that you think.
(00:46:01):
When I look at my business and my life and think, who are the people that have made the biggest differences, I go back. It's like I didn't know anyone that was going to give me money to start a business. I went to my clients, to people that I worked with and explained, I am going to start this thing and I'm going to need some capital to do it. When I needed advice and a mentor, I didn't know anyone who had a business in East London, not a legit or legal one. Anyway, it was like, okay, guys, that's not the type of business advice I need. So again, I went to clients and at the end of pitching the marketing campaign, I was there. I would just ask a couple of questions. You've got to take your chance, shoot your shot. Don't walk around looking for a mentor, walk around asking questions. That's what you have to do. And you have to realize that your network will never be what you think it's, it'll be the factory, the vendors, your bank relationship, your lawyer. That is your network. So work with whatever you've got, stop looking at what you don't have and look at what you do have and make that the network. But you have to start. You've got to start somewhere.
Mel Robbins (00:47:10):
I keep thinking about the fact that it is so easy to talk. It's so easy to make a plan. It's so easy to network with people, but the real differentiator is what can you show me that you've done? If you can't take out your phone and show someone a photograph of the thing that you did, you haven't done anything.
Emma Grede (00:47:34):
Yes,
Mel Robbins (00:47:35):
You said ask questions. Are there questions that are better than others?
Emma Grede (00:47:39):
There are questions that are better than others. And I also think that what happens with a lot of founders is that they get obsessed with their idea. They get obsessed with their individual thing. And often I will be in a situation, somebody is pitching an idea or trying to get advice from me, and I will ask about their space, the competition, their market, and they don't know anything. So when you start something, it's not just about the thing that you are doing. You have to be obsessed with everything else that is adjacent with your entire category. Obsess the price, obsess the distribution, obsess every single part and every dynamic of that thing because what counts? You are bringing your thing into that space. And so that becomes the barrier between what you are starting with and where that thing is going to go. You've got to be really open to what's happening around you, because that is the truth of business. You are in a fight from day one. You open your doors, you start your website. It's like it's a fight. It's a fight for attention. It's a fight for that customer. And you need to be willing and have a real understanding of what problem you are solving for and what it is that you bring uniquely. And that means an understanding of everything else that is around you.
Emma Grede (00:49:05):
What was the first thing that you started? So the first thing to say is I always had a job from 12.
(00:49:10):
I've had a job. I delivered the papers, I did the babysitting. It's like I worked in the deli. I worked in million different clove shops. It's like I've been working forever and ever and ever. And so it's like I drop out of college and I landed in this strange year of just work placement. I just went from place to place to place, essentially figuring out what I didn't want to do, but getting closer to the idea of what is the fashion business? How does it work? I landed in a fashion show, production company, sounds glamorous. Absolutely was not. You are building the catwalk shows. So a designer has this grand idea of what it is that they want to do, and you have to build it. The show goes up, but you spend three months planning it. The show goes up and down in 10 minutes.
(00:49:51):
You don't see it because backstage, everybody goes off to a party that you are not invited to and you have to de rig and pack the thing down. That was my life for five years. But in that, I met everybody. I understood what the business of fashion was, why we were putting on the shows, and I knew everybody. And so I essentially took what I had created there, which was just my reputation as being someone who understood fashion and loved fashion. And I started doing deals for fashion designers with brands. So everybody had this grand idea of what show they wanted to put on, but no budget because they weren't really making sales. And so I would do brand partnerships between designers and brands. And I created an agency eventually after one deal here, one deal there, a little commission there, a little commission there. I became the girl that did this in London, and I started an agency when I was 24. The agency I was in for 10 years, I grew it. I had an office in London, an office in New York, an office in la, closed the office in la. Grew, grew, grew. And I essentially built this agency group that started acquiring rights, licensing rights, and brand rights. We did product placement in movies. We put celebrities into campaigns.
Mel Robbins (00:51:06):
So if I don't understand what that means,
Emma Grede (00:51:07):
Yes,
Mel Robbins (00:51:09):
What does that mean that you do brand things?
Emma Grede (00:51:12):
So my agency was an entertainment marketing agency, so we represented a brand's interests in the world of entertainment. So my client could be, let's call it Mercedes-Benz. And Mercedes-Benz want to put that car into a movie, or they would like to have Claudia Schiffer in their campaign, or they would like to do a partnership with a fashion designer and have the interiors of the car looking all gorgeous. I was the goal representing the brands, making those marketing deals happen.
Mel Robbins (00:51:41):
I want to make sure that as you're listening or watching right now, you actually got a couple really key takeaways and pieces of advice that are buried in the story so far. So you have this vision, you know what you want to do, you want to be in fashion, and so you do everything you can to get yourself in as close proximity as you can to the thing that you're interested in. So you're volunteering first. You ultimately end up with this crappy job, crappy job, crappy job. But you are in the industry. I'm in the mix. You're in the mix. So number one, I don't care if you don't know what you want to do, get a damn job. You said for an entire year you did everything you could in these jobs free. You didn't like full free for free, free. But you also were working and making money and delis and everything else.
Emma Grede (00:52:30):
Seven days a week, I worked in the clothes shop, and then I would work doing my work experience. I was exhausted.
Mel Robbins (00:52:36):
But here's something you said that I want to make sure that as you're listening, you do not miss every single crappy job that you hated actually told you what you didn't want to do. So everything you're doing right now that you don't like is so important because it's getting you closer to understanding what you do like. Exactly, and that's really important. And I also love the fact that you kept yourself super busy. The more crappy jobs you have, the faster you're going to figure out what you're actually good at and what you like.
Emma Grede (00:53:09):
Oh, and Mel, this is a key point because people ask me all the time, how do I figure out what I'm good at? I'm like, what you need to do is lean into where you're good. I dunno what I'm good at. It's very, very simple. If it gives you energy you are good at, if it takes your energy away and you feel exhausted and depleted, that's what you're bad at. Make it simple. So for me, in negotiations, in contract negotiations, I am on fire. Even the bad ones, I am on fire. That's what I'm good at. You give me an Excel sheet with a bunch of numbers, it's like, kill me now, kill me now. That's what I'm not so good at. So you really start to understand, and it's in that understanding of yourself that you get closer and closer to where you need to be and figuring out what you're good at. You don't try to chase a passion. You don't try to find, what am I supposed to be doing? What is my purpose? No, no, no. Lean into what you are good at. I am an excellent negotiator, and that's where I have ended up where I am today. That's it.
Mel Robbins (00:54:12):
The second thing that I want to extract from that story is that in that job of assembling catwalks and being treated like garbage and not being part of the fun stuff, your network appeared and it wasn't who you thought it was going to be.
Emma Grede (00:54:30):
Not in the slightest.
Mel Robbins (00:54:31):
Not in the slightest. And so it's in the doing of all the stuff and keeping yourself busy. If you don't keep yourself busy, you're going to get stuck in your head. That's how you get started. Just get a bunch of jobs and you're going to start to figure it out. But the network appears and then all of a sudden you realize, wait a minute, they're not making money. So maybe I could get a little brand involved like Parker Mercedes out front, and they would pay to do that. And I have a buddy who works at the dealership down there. So it doesn't start with the corporate brand, it starts with the local thing,
Emma Grede (00:55:04):
Your network. And it didn't start with the fashion brands. In my head. I was like, I'm going to work in fashion. Remember, I didn't have any fashion clients for the first two years, I had a bunch of corporate brands because my contacts, when you work in production, it wasn't the PRS and the models and the designers. My contacts were the lighting designers and the riggers and the people that built the stage. And they're like, well, I know the CMO over at Volvo. I was like, great, well give me her number then. So it's like you just have to go where the energy is and you take whatever you can take and you just keep your eyes on the prize because you can pivot. When you have choices, you can pivot, and when you don't have choices, you do whatever is in front of you.
Mel Robbins (00:55:45):
You're now 34 years old. You've been running this incredible agency wheeling and dealing and negotiating and having all this not having fun yet because it's only the last five years that you really love what you're doing and you have this idea and you end up in a room with Kris Jenner and what happened?
Emma Grede (00:56:06):
Well, I think the important thing for people to understand is that I had spent 10 years building my career at the intersection of brands and fashion.
(00:56:14):
And so I had a fantastic understanding of what works in fashion and where the white space was. I really understood what was missing. What do you mean by white space? So when I talk about white space, it's where the opportunity is, what wasn't out there. Got it. Where was there a problem that I could find a solution for? And Good American was a solution. It was that most women are massively underserved by the fashion industry. 68% of women in America are above a size 16. And yet when you go into a mall, there's maybe two or three shops out of the hundreds of stores that will actually cater to that size. Now we're going back 10 years ago, right when I first had this idea. So the landscape has shifted a bit largely because good American has impacted it, but back then there were very, very few options. And all the options quite honestly, were bad. Horrible. They were ugly. And I had come from a place in East London. All my family are big curvy women and they have confidence and they feel good about themselves. And especially you think about black culture, it's like the bigger the but the better. And so we were very much, my idea of beauty was much, much broader than what was being shown in the media.
(00:57:25):
And so I had this idea and I just decided, I was like, I'm going to do this. I have spent the last 10 years building value for all of my clients and I was very well enumerated and I had a fantastic business and I managed to sell that first business, but I wanted to do something that was for myself that I owned and that I could feel very proud of and start a brand instead of helping all of these other brands. And so what happened is I had seen how celebrity endorsement can really accelerate a brand because 10 years working on all of those campaigns, Natalie Portman for Dior or putting people in L'Oreal commercials or whatever it was I was doing, I understood how that worked. I understood that talent was a key to unlocking an audience. And so I was like, great, I'm going to start this brand. I'm going to fill the white space, do something that isn't out there and I'm going to couple it with the talent to make it explode. And so I pitched Chris and Chloe now feels like a legendary meeting at the time. Honestly, it didn't feel like a legendary meeting to me at the time. I really knew that I had something special
(00:58:33):
And I had spent a long time figuring out why this was going to be so successful. And if I go back eight years now, good American was a complete trailblazer. There was nothing like it. There was a reason that we did a million dollars on day one and it wasn't because people were like, oh, this sounds like a good idea. It's because they could feel the difference. They understood that we saw them. They felt seen, they felt heard, and they felt represented. And it was a magical moment in my career because it was an idea that I'd come up with. It was an idea that didn't exist that I'd started from scratch and it was resonating, it was working. And then I realized I know nothing. I know nothing about an apparel company. All of my agency experience and opening offices all over the world meant nothing because I was in the garment business and I was not a garment. I knew nothing about making clothes. And so it was like I had this on the outside, this huge success that was getting so much and so much attention and growing on social, and yet I had no idea how to run that business.
Mel Robbins (00:59:45):
I want to go back to this meeting and the idea. So the idea was to how did you frame the idea eight years ago? It was absolutely a trailblazer. So you've got this white space idea that this is not like everybody's got that uncle who's like, I thought of Uber. Okay, sure. Did you do it? But no, you had been building toward this moment,
Emma Grede (01:00:14):
Yes,
Mel Robbins (01:00:15):
For well over a decade. And so you not only had an idea, you had obsessed around the industry, you knew that you were going to do this. Didn't matter if Chris Jenner and Chloe or anybody said yes because you were going to do this.
Emma Grede (01:00:31):
Oh, I was going to do it.
Mel Robbins (01:00:32):
Oh hell yes, you were. And so tell me though, what was the pitch and pull up a chair and put us in the meeting in terms of how that meeting went.
Emma Grede (01:00:45):
So you have to imagine that for the 10 years previously I had been in practice,
(01:00:52):
I'd pitched the world's biggest CMOs. I'd put the biggest celebrities in the world, in the biggest campaigns in the world. I had been on set with the most famous men and women on the planet, and I had won awards in my agency. I was a trailblazer in that business of celebrity fashion entertainment. My agency was the best agency doing what it did. And so in a way, Mel, when I got into that meeting, I thought I had a gift in my hand and I was wordy and willing to share my gift because I knew I had an idea that was golden. And I really approached that meeting saying, Hey, I have this golden brilliant thing that I have researched and I understand and I'd gone out and made, I had a pair of jeans and this is going to be the next big thing in fashion.
(01:01:47):
And so my mindset was that this is done. I am launching this thing. It comes out in October, where do we go from here? And I think that there was something so special in that moment because everybody could see it. Everybody understood. The reason I was able to attract the right investors and the right partners and the right retailers is because the idea and the execution and what led up to it was so incredibly special. I had done my homework. I knew the difference between me and everybody else. I had obsessed the price point. I could tell you the price of every single pair of jeans that sat on the Nordstrom denim floor, and I could tell you what the content of those jeans were and I could tell you how my jeans were made differently and why when a woman put them on, she felt a certain way in them because I was obsessed, obsessed beyond anything that would be reasonable because in my head I had to succeed at something that was mine because when you spend your life as a consultant, making everybody else look good and being the person behind the scenes and not taking credit for it, there's only so much of that that an ego like mine can take.
(01:03:00):
Quite honestly. I was like, wow, look at that campaign. That's their idea again, that I came up with. And so for me, I was ready to take credit and to do something that meant something to a group of women that I admired that I felt had been overlooked and the love that I got back. Now I cannot do it. The best thing about Good American wasn't the million dollar first day. Wasn't that all the praise we got? It's the women on the streets, the women that would stop me. I would go into Nordstrom and people I used to, I was like, I'm going to work in Nordstrom, going to just hang around until a customer comes. And I'd be like, have you seen this brand Good American? And they'd be, oh my God, I just bought a pair of good American. I'm back to buy my second pair. My third pair. It was feverish. And I could tell from all the feedback that I was getting that we had done something really, really special.
Mel Robbins (01:03:52):
You know what this is? It's excellence.
Emma Grede (01:03:56):
Thank you. Thanks so much.
Mel Robbins (01:03:59):
I'm really proud of you.
Emma Grede (01:04:00):
Thank you. You're so lovely.
Mel Robbins (01:04:02):
So what happened next?
Emma Grede (01:04:04):
It's a disaster, Mel.
Mel Robbins (01:04:06):
My God, it never feels like you think it's going to feel to get everything you've ever wanted.
Emma Grede (01:04:15):
No, it was a disaster.
Mel Robbins (01:04:16):
That's what they don't tell you.
Emma Grede (01:04:17):
That's what they don't tell you. Yeah. And when I say it was a disaster, if you go back to launch date, it was amazing actually because you've got your Shopify site. I was in, my husband had an office in LA at that time. I was just sitting at a conference table with the two people that I'd hired around that conference day at room table. And so we had the Shopify screen up and you can see the customers are starting to come in and people are starting to purchase. And everyone was like, Emma, you are a genius. You're going to have amazing sales today. This is like nine o'clock. And I'm like, I'm so clever. And then 10 o'clock rolls round and they're like, well, you are out of all the size, whatevers this through this. And I'm like, it's okay. We're replenished. And this wonderful woman I will never forget, she still works with me to this day, Melissa Anderson. She says, you do know that we're off calendar. And I thought, why is this woman
Mel Robbins (01:05:06):
What does off calendar mean?
Emma Grede (01:05:07):
Well, that's the problem, Mel. You are not in fashion, so you wouldn't know what off calendar means. But I was in fashion and I still didn't know what off-calendar meant. And if I'd have known, I wouldn't have had the problems that I had. So my naivety kind of hit me right there. She was like, you don't have more inventory. If you sell through what is here today, it's going to take months to get back into stock, and we are not holding any fabric and we don't have the vendors lined up because in my head, there is no way that you would sell through that much inventory. It was a brand new brand. It was a brand new idea. Even retailers when we pitched it to them, didn't fully understand the concept of carrying all of those sizes. So long story short, I remember everybody, by about 11 o'clock, they stopped celebrating me and by 12 it was like, maybe you are not fit to be the CEO of this company.
(01:05:57):
And I thought, maybe I'm not for about 30 seconds. And I was like, everybody needs to calm down. And at that point it was like a lesson in customer service because I had started to disappoint people. People were coming on the website and they couldn't get their size, they couldn't get what they wanted. And so I started calling people and at that point, of course, it's all email. There were no phone numbers. So I was like, what is your phone number? Hi Sally from Michigan. I'm so sorry. I can get you a pair of jeans in about 13 weeks. And I just went and I went and I went and I emailed and I phoned and I called. And that's when I started to really fundamentally understand the business that I was in because I had to go backwards before I could go forwards. I had to figure out how is this juggernaut going to actually work and function because I don't understand it.
Mel Robbins (01:06:47):
What's so interesting about that story is you would think that selling out of your entire inventory on day one would be a great problem.
Emma Grede (01:06:56):
It would be a great problem if you could get some more inventory in the next couple of weeks. But if you are out of, again, attention span is very, very short. And I knew that two great things. Number one, the majority of my customers couldn't just go elsewhere. There was a limit. But at the end of the day, there were a lot of women buying good American that could go to any brand and if you want something, you're going to go elsewhere. And so I had to figure out a way of creating community around what we was doing so that I could be in conversation with my customer.
Mel Robbins (01:07:29):
That's pretty unbelievable. It would also be pretty arrogant though, wouldn't it? Irresponsible to run a business thinking you're going to sell through all that stuff that fast and then have all that inventory sitting around.
Emma Grede (01:07:41):
Well, yeah, I never imagined it was expensive product. I didn't think people would swarm us like that. And there's always a little bit of me, again, because of where I come from, I'm responsible. I treat money like money to me, it's not just a number on a piece of paper. I'm like, that's a hundred bucks right there. That's a lot of money to part with. And so in my head, I wasn't going to do something irresponsible and put myself in a situation that I couldn't claw myself out of. And for me it was about managing expectations and doing things responsibly. And also I was very, very lucky because I had surrounded myself with real business people. And if you go back to that kind of time, it was all about direct to consumer businesses, growth, growth, growth, doing things, just chasing a customer. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to make a profitable business. What I understand, I know that money on the bottom line equates to optionality, meaning that if you are making money, everything that you want to do is possible. And if you don't make any money, your choices are limited.
Mel Robbins (01:08:44):
Yes,
Emma Grede (01:08:44):
End of. It's really basic math. You have to know that. And so for me, it was important to do something at level that made sense to me that I could control and that I felt comfortable with. And again, I say I because it all fell on me. Again, it's about responsibility. I took responsibility for my investors' money. I took responsibility for those customers and what their needs were. I took that responsibility extremely seriously from day one.
Mel Robbins (01:09:13):
What is kind of the biggest lesson from your experience launching Good American?
Emma Grede (01:09:22):
I would say that my biggest learning has actually been uncovering who is really useful to you when you are building something like that. I don't know that coming from an agency background that I had an intricate understanding of financial modeling, of how pivotal a relationship with my bank was going to be,
(01:09:48):
Of how this thing called a factor, which is a lending facility between you and your retailer was going to be of how those retailer relationships. I was so lucky from the beginning that I had pitched to Pete Nordstrom and Pete Nordstrom got it. And he was my champion. I didn't understand how valuable that was. And those relationships are what allow me to be in business in the way that I am with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of sales today. Those relationships, it weren't the press, it ain't the celebrities, it's none of that. It's none of the things that I was like, oh, this is, it's none of that. It's all of the behind the scene stuff. It's all of the foundational people and relationships that allow you to go where you need to go.
Mel Robbins (01:10:36):
It's the unsexy stuff. It honestly goes all the way back to you working at that crappy job building catwalks because it was all the people behind the scenes that is the network. And we're also busy chasing the shiny stuff that to your point, you've already said it. Look at what's right in front of you, work with what you have, work with what you have, and go from there. How did Skims come to start?
Emma Grede (01:11:00):
Well, skims was a bit different because that was Kim's idea. Kim had the idea of starting this shapewear company, and I think that I was a trusted partner of the family by that point. Got it. And just again, when I get excited about something now I'm like, this is our best idea ever.
Mel Robbins (01:11:18):
That's one of those products. It's just like that makes so much sense. And it is so obviously the right thing to do and so on. Brand and so needed and solves a problem and just, well, I should say Skims is a sponsor of this podcast.
Emma Grede (01:11:37):
Yes, skims.
Mel Robbins (01:11:39):
It's the only bras I wear. Go skims. You did not pay me to do that. Well, let's talk though about your experience investing and being a judge on Shark Tank. Got to have seen some amazing pitches and some really horrible ones. Everybody wants to take their shot.
Mel Robbins (01:12:04):
What advice do you have for somebody who can get into the room or happens to be introduced to somebody and you want to take your shot and make your pitch? How do you do it without being overbearing or inappropriate or, you know what I'm saying?
Emma Grede (01:12:23):
Yeah, totally. So let's just talk about this for a second in terms of what is most important for a pitch, right? Because that's the first thing that people get wrong. A lot of fantastic, brilliant, successful entrepreneurs are excellent storytellers. So they're not coming into you going like, hi, I've got this thing and it's 5 99 and it, they're telling you a story. They are weaving a narrative in your mind for what this thing does for the solution for how it came to be, and they're going all around that, but they are taking you on a journey and you're like, you're in, you're being red Goldilocks, right? It's like, and you're eating it up. And that is the starting point because to be an incredible entrepreneur, you've got to be able to sell and you've got to be able to story tell. And those two things are the things that I think people don't think about enough.
(01:13:22):
When you can craft a story and a narrative that is compelling to your customers, you got 'em. You got 'em hooked. That is your sales pitch. So really figuring that out and practicing it. I can't tell you how many times I sat down in a mirror and spoke about Good American before I met Pete, Nordstrom, maybe 50 times. I did that pitch over and over and over and over again. Remember Mel, I knew nothing about the construction of denim. I was a marketing kid who went into product. So I had to really finesse it and I had to, again, I'm not a plus size woman, but I had to embody my customer and embody who I was solving for. So the first thing is get your storytelling down and make sure you're not just flogging a product. You are telling an interesting, compelling narrative. And then you've got to work out your timing.
(01:14:16):
If you are in a party, if you are at a social event, if you are on a quick ride, that's not the time. That's not it. And you would be better saying, I've got something that will be really interesting to you and I wonder if you've got a good five minutes to do it. Because if you get that timing off, the person is not there to receive your thing. My next thing is about your attitude. You can be excited, you can be exuberant. You can actually even be a little bit arrogant. That is fine. So long as you know your shit and you really need to know it, you really need to know. And when I say you need to know it, you need to know your competition. You need to know what you are up against. You need to have figured all of those things out because when you have your chance, you have to be ready. There is no practice, there is no, it's like that's your moment. So you've got to figure those things out way ahead of time. That's how you do a really great and really compelling pitch.
Mel Robbins (01:15:12):
Excellence. Again, we're back to it. We're back to it.
Emma Grede (01:15:16):
We're back to it.
Mel Robbins (01:15:16):
We're back to excellence.
Emma Grede (01:15:17):
And excellence can be practiced, right?
Mel Robbins (01:15:21):
It actually needs excellence does not show up.
Emma Grede (01:15:23):
No, you, you've got to try and you've got to sit in front of someone and fake pitch it. You've got to do that, and you've got to be willing to take the feedback. Everyone used to say to me, Emma, you are fantastic. You just speak really fast. And I'd be like, I do. Really? What do you mean I speak too fast? And so I had to learn to slow it down a little bit. But you have to be willing to take that feedback.
Mel Robbins (01:15:47):
So for someone who wants to start a business, what's the best piece of advice to give them?
Emma Grede (01:15:54):
I think my best advice is that, and this is where I want to be really honest, Mel. Not everybody should start a business. And so I think that you have to really think about what you are optimizing for. What are you trying to do? Here we are in America. America is an incredible place to be successful. And that isn't always about starting a business. We've romanticized this idea of what it means to be a founder. It might be that you are the type of person that thrives on comfort and you need to know what's happening next month and the month after. That's not a founder. That's not an entrepreneur. And you would be better working for one of the great companies that we have in this country. You can have a fantastic, beautiful, ambitious, entrepreneurial corporate career in this country. And so you really need to be honest with yourself about who are you and what are you trying to optimize for? Do you want to be that? Are you somebody that is risk adverse? Are you somebody that's willing to put it all on the line? Are you the stage in your life where that's even an option for you? Or do you have kids and a mortgage and parents that you're looking after? So the first thing is, let's just be honest and not go around telling everyone that everyone should start a business and everyone's on an entrepreneur because they're just not. That might not be what people want to hear, but that is the truth.
Mel Robbins (01:17:25):
That's what they need to hear. That's what they need to hear. That is fantastic. Honest advice. What's the worst thing that somebody could do if they know, okay, I can handle the uncertainty. I cannot let this thing go, I am going to do this thing. What's the worst thing that they could do?
Emma Grede (01:17:46):
Be shortsighted. You have to be long-term. I don't know any business that does what it does in the movies. It takes time. It takes so much time and for you to get in your stride and be good at something and start hiring people and those people to work out and your thing to start tracking and the retailers to take notice and then the press to sit up, that takes time. So you have to know that nothing happens overnight. And are you willing to commit yourself to this thing for the next few years,
Mel Robbins (01:18:20):
10 years? Honestly, that's what it takes.
Emma Grede (01:18:23):
That's what it takes.
Mel Robbins (01:18:25):
That's what it takes.
Emma Grede (01:18:25):
That's what it takes.
Mel Robbins (01:18:26):
And if you're not willing to do it for 10 years, then you're not actually committed to it.
Emma Grede (01:18:29):
Yeah, we overestimate what we can do in a year.
Mel Robbins (01:18:32):
That's true. It's true. So if somebody is listening right now or they have someone in their life that either just lost their job, a lot of people losing their jobs right now, or maybe they just want a pivot. They're thinking about reinvention or they want to start a business. If you had to really name the skill that you believe is going to be the most marketable and important in the next few years, what do you think that skill is that somebody should either focus on or learn or double down on?
Emma Grede (01:19:12):
So the first thing is you have to figure out what you really care about, what you uniquely can get obsessed over. And then you are going to have to work out how AI is going to disrupt that business and learn it. And I talk about this all the time because by and large male women missed out on the first tech boom. There are far too few female engineers. There are far too few female coders because we weren't in it in the same way that the guys were in it from the beginning. And then the education followed that path and the training and the jobs and the seniority, it all went that way. We must not miss out on this AI boom. If you ain't using it, use it now. And I'm not talking chat GPT as your search engine default instead of Google. I'm talking about whatever it is that you do.
(01:20:05):
If you are an editor, if are working in planning or merchandising in a fashion company, whatever it is that your job is now, figure out the way you can utilize AI tools and start learning them and force yourself to learn them because that's the future. That's where we are going. And I know that so many people are like, oh my goodness, I don't want more technology in my life. I'm just trying to not use my phone as much. I want to get back to real life and real people. You can't avoid it. We've never been able to stop progress and nor should we want to. And there's going to be a lot of great stuff that comes out of this AI boom. And you have to be at the forefront of it. So it's like start to figure out how you can ingratiate it into your life and your work now.
(01:20:50):
And something will start to emerge. You'll start to understand it. See where the gaps are, get into that white space. You'll start to learn something differently and it will become habitual for you. I could not agree more. How are you using it? Oh, in so many different ways. Well, because for my own podcast, the team is minuscule. So we're using it in a lot of ways, whether it's for research or transcribing or pulling certain clips. But there's so many ways. And what I did actually two years ago in the office was really say to everyone, whoever can use AI in their department, here's a bonus. We have a bonus system.
Emma Grede (01:21:30):
And it was so interesting. You think it would come from the marketing department or the real creative departments? Absolutely not. It was the accounts team that found a way to systematically figure out chargebacks, which is a huge part of our business, right?
Mel Robbins (01:21:43):
Oh, yes.
Emma Grede (01:21:44):
And I was like, are you kidding? Not only saving the company actually hundreds of thousands of dollars, but coming out of the department that you would think is less dynamic. And so I think when you start to challenge people to find efficiencies in the way they work, it really is the best thing that's happened to us,
Mel Robbins (01:22:01):
Emma, if the person who is hanging on every single amazing word that comes out of your mouth takes one thing and does one thing today out everything that you've shared, what is the one thing that is the most important thing to do?
Emma Grede (01:22:24):
You have to get out of your head. You have to change the narrative that fills you with the fear that stops you from moving. And I say that because I've been there. I've been in a job where I've been dreaming of something else for the longest time, and I've written proposals and I've done presentations, and I've filed them on my desktop, and then I left them and I didn't see the light of day. And guess what? The first one I did is the one that you're wearing today. You are wearing the jeans, you are wearing the idea that made it off of my desktop. That's it. And if I can do it, anyone can do it. Now, anyone?
Mel Robbins (01:23:15):
Emma Grede. What are your parting words?
Emma Grede (01:23:21):
Honestly, Mel, I'm so grateful to you. I'm so unbelievably grateful that you would ask me to come here, and I wish I had something better to say, but my honest truth is that I dreamt of being who I am now, but I just didn't let the dreams stay a dream, right? It's like I just decided that I would have to get up and make it a reality that if I worked and if I tried and if I was willing to kind of sit with the failure and the knock backs, that that would be okay. Eventually it would come. And so I just want to say the same to everyone else. Eventually your time will come. That's it. You have to know that about yourself. That is just it.
Mel Robbins (01:24:13):
Well, here's what I know about you. You are a force to be reckoned with. Thank you. And you understood the assignment, and you showed up and lit the biggest fire, not only inside the person that has been listening and watching, but also inside me. I think you are a gift. You deserve every single bit of success that you have worked your ass off for.
Emma Grede (01:24:38):
Thank you.
Mel Robbins (01:24:38):
And there's no doubt in my mind that there will be a million other Emma Gredes that are inspired by your story and the generosity of the wisdom that you have shared with us today. I love you. I'm so grateful to have met you, to have learned from you, to feel so inspired by you. And thank you. Thank you for being here.
Emma Grede (01:25:00):
Thank you for having me. It's been a joy. Thank you Mel,
Mel Robbins (01:25:03):
And thank you. Thank you for listening to something that I know will change the course of your life. Because this particular episode is going to change the course of mine. I literally want to stop talking and go do something. I'm so fired up after being with Emma and being with you. And so take this gift, share it with everybody, and then make yourself get to work. And in case nobody else has told you, let me be the first person to say as your friend, that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to aspire to amazing things, to get to work, to figure it out. And Emma just taught you exactly what to do to put it in motion. Now go do it. Because you know your friend Mel, is going to be cheering you on every step of the way.
(01:25:55):
Alrighty. She lit a fire under my ass. So I got to get out of here. But I will see you in the very next episode, the moment you hit play. Alrighty, I got to get out of here because I got to go do something now that Emma has just poured all this into us, and I know you're feeling the same way. And what you probably want to do is watch another video. So I'm going to recommend that you go to this one. You're going to love it, and I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.
Key takeaways
You don’t need a degree to succeed. When you own your strengths, trust your gifts, and see your voice as valuable, you can build the life you dream of.
Commit to the pursuit of your best self through growth, continuous learning, and everyday excellence, and watch your true path emerge naturally.
Confidence is built, not born. It grows when you own what you’ve got, trust that it’s yours alone, and boldly bring it forward no matter how small it feels.
Everything you want is on the other side of doing, not thinking; you must start, keep moving, and let momentum carry you even when direction feels unclear.
Remember the rule of thirds: one-third of the time you’ll feel great, one-third okay, and one-third awful—and all of it is exactly where you’re meant to be.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
Emma Grede
Emma Grede is one of the most successful self-made women in business today. She is the CEO and co-founder of Good American, founding partner of SKIMS, and co-founder of Safely. She’s also a venture investor, a judge on Shark Tank and Dragons’ Den, and was named one of Forbes’ Richest Self-Made Women Under 40.
Emma also serves as Chair of the 15% Pledge, pushing retailers to dedicate shelf space to Black-owned businesses. She’s a global business leader, changemaker, and host of the Aspire with Emma Grede podcast.
- Follow Emma on Instagram & LinkedIn
- Subscribe to Emma’s YouTube channel
- Read all about Emma’s mission with Good American
- Check out Emma’s Forbes profile
- Get involved with The Fifteen Percent Pledge
- Learn more about Emma in The Times
-
Aspire with Emma Grede
Aspire with Emma Grede is more than a podcast—it’s a masterclass in ambition, heart, and high performance. Hosted by one of America’s most powerful self-made women, Emma dives into unfiltered conversations with visionaries, disruptors, and next-level thinkers—unpacking their habits, philosophies, and strategies.
From career advice to mental wellness, business strategy to personal growth, every episode delivers data-driven insights and real-world tools to help you turn your dreams into reality. This is where purpose meets power. And it all starts with you.
Resources
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- Lean In: Women in the Workplace 2024: The 10th Anniversary Report
- World Economic Forum: Progress for women in the workplace stagnating in four key areas, global study reveals
- Harvard Business Review: Women in the Workplace: A Research Roundup
- Harvard Business Review: A Beginner’s Guide to Networking
- University of Oxford: Top Tips for Successful Networking
- University of Washington: 4 Ways Women Can Conquer the Confidence Gap
- New York University: Five Tips for Outsmarting AI in Your Job Search
- Baylor University: 10 Tips for Mastering the Art of Networking
- The Management Center: Stop Micromanaging: A Guide for Managers
- TED: Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance | Angela Lee Duckworth
- GBH: How women of color find success as entrepreneurs
- Psych Central: What's the Difference Between Excellence and Perfection?
- Calm: Hate your job? Here’s what you can do about it right now
- Forbes: This Is How To Cope When You Hate Your Job
- LifeHack: I Hate My Job: Practical Tactics to Find Greater Meaning and Fulfillment’
- Neurobiology of Learning and Memory: Habituation Revisited: An Updated and Revised Description of the Behavioral Characteristics of Habituation
- Harvard Kennedy School: Why Investing in Women Entrepreneurs is Key to Social Impact
- Cold Spring Harbor Symposia on Quantitative Biology: The Neurobiology of Confidence: From Beliefs to Neurons
- The New York Times: The Secret to Unshakable Confidence
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