Episode: 41
If You Struggle With Anxiety, This Episode Will Change Your Life
with Oakley Robbins
Get life-changing insights to help you understand and manage overwhelming thoughts.
Whether you’re struggling yourself or supporting someone who is, this conversation will normalize those big feelings and teach you why sharing them is essential to healing.
Mel and her teenage son Oakley share practical ways to navigate mental health challenges and feel less alone in the process.
Listen on:
I just try to live every day as if I’ve deliberately come back to this one day to enjoy it, as if it was the full final day of my extraordinary ordinary life.
Oakley Robbins
Featured Clips
Transcript
Oakley Robbins (02:03):
I would like to talk to your audience about therapy.
Mel Robbins (02:04):
Okay. Do it
Oakley Robbins (02:06):
Guys. Therapy is like, it's awesome. I love my therapy. I love therapy. When I was younger, I had a horrible experience with therapy. It was with this old woman who tried to convince me how to use an elevator because that's what I was afraid of. I was afraid of elevators. She was like, you need to ride the elevator. And I was like, I don't want to. And so I hated therapy, I hated it. And then I got a new therapist last year and it changed my life. How? Because I just love having, it's almost like therapy is
Oakley Robbins (02:45):
Almost like having a notebook, but you don't have to write and you actually get an answer back. So you don't have to take the time and your hand hurts and all that stuff to write down your thoughts. You just say it and then they say something back to you and it doesn't have to help, but it's just nice to hear someone say something that isn't part of your friend group or a family member. They're just someone that's there to listen. And maybe that's all they need to do. And I love therapy and I would fully recommend therapy to anyone because no, it's not like some bad thing. And if you have a therapist, you're super messed up in the head and everything in your life is going to shit. No therapy rocks. You can have it when you're perfectly fine and happy. I think everyone should have a therapist because it's just the best.
Mel Robbins (03:32):
I agree with you. And the thing that I realize now is had I gone and worked with a therapist Oak when things were going okay,
Oakley Robbins (03:45):
They probably wouldn't have gone back. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I hate to burst your bubble, but you are not going to be able to solve all your problems. And your friends with the similar age as you and the similar mindset will not be able to solve the same problems that you have.
Mel Robbins (04:02):
Oh my God. Well, I'm so happy and appreciative that you were like, yeah, I'll sit down on the mics with your mom and tell you why this therapy session with Keith was so awesome. So thank you. Of course. Why did you want to do it?
Oakley Robbins (04:18):
Because I felt like I was in a good mood and I was like, you know what? I haven't done it in a while. Might as well just jump in there and be nice.
Mel Robbins (04:26):
Why do you think, I wanted you to sit down with me and let everybody hear you. Tell me in real time what you talked to your therapist about tonight.
Oakley Robbins (04:37):
Because what you would probably say to me if I said no was it would benefit a lot of people including you.
Mel Robbins (04:45):
Yeah, it will. Because I hear every single day from parents around the world about how their kids and their sons in particular don't talk to them.
Mel Robbins (04:57):
And so it's a real, I think, gift to have you be willing to just sit down and have these conversations because it gives parents and people with teenagers and college students and young adults in their lives, they actually forward these episodes oak as a way to open up dialogue and it's working. That's why people are asking so often and so frequently that we have you come back and back and back. So thank you.
Oakley Robbins (05:28):
Glad I can help.
Mel Robbins (05:29):
Alright, well, let's see if this helps or not.
Oakley Robbins (05:31):
Let's do it.
Mel Robbins (05:32):
Okay. You walked downstairs
Oakley Robbins (05:36):
That I did,
Mel Robbins (05:37):
And we were cooking dinner and we had your sister on the FaceTime. She was playing a song for us. She just wrote And you walked into the kitchen.
Oakley Robbins (05:50):
Yes, I did walk into the kitchen
Mel Robbins (05:52):
And you said,
Oakley Robbins (05:54):
I love my therapist, Katie.
Mel Robbins (05:58):
And it was so funny. You just strolled, right? You're like, I love my therapist, Keith.
Oakley Robbins (06:02):
Yeah, I do shout out to Keith.
Mel Robbins (06:06):
Respect. So what did you talk about in this session?
Oakley Robbins (06:11):
A lot of things. A
Mel Robbins (06:14):
School. Would you be willing to unpack it with me?
Oakley Robbins (06:16):
Yeah. I mean,
Mel Robbins (06:17):
Can you just tell everybody why you wanted to share this? Because I think it's pretty cool that you're willing to, do
Oakley Robbins (06:25):
You want the honest answer or do you want the podcast answer
Mel Robbins (06:27):
Either?
Oakley Robbins (06:29):
The honest answer is that I came downstairs in a good mood and I said, I love Keith. And you said, will you record this with me? And I was in a good enough mood to say share.
Mel Robbins (06:37):
Oh, I like an honest answer. What's the podcast answer?
Oakley Robbins (06:42):
This is game changing stuff right here. Life changing.
Mel Robbins (06:45):
Is it?
Oakley Robbins (06:47):
It depends on how they look at it.
Mel Robbins (06:49):
Well, is it for you?
Oakley Robbins (06:52):
It's a viewpoint that I didn't consider
Mel Robbins (06:55):
About life.
Oakley Robbins (06:56):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (06:57):
So it was a life-changing therapy session you just had with your therapist, Keith,
Oakley Robbins (07:03):
Low key. Yeah. It's like, yeah, little life change right there. A little tweak in the direction that my life is going in.
Mel Robbins (07:11):
Okay. I can't wait to hear it. So why did you start working with Keith in the first place? And then we'll hear about this life-changing session. How long have you been talking to Keith?
Oakley Robbins (07:26):
Started when? Last year? April was it? Or was it May? It was April.
(07:34):
So yeah, April last year. So almost a year. Kind of close to a year, A few months away. Sophomore year. And it was weird because freshman year and sophomore year, there was a moment in time in my school life or in my life in the same point in time. It was, I remember the exact time, it was March. It was a march time. It was becoming spring, but still kind of chilly. That's the memory that I have from these points in time where it wasn't depression and it wasn't like, I think it was anxiety. It was overwhelming anxiety in my freshman and sophomore year. And it went away. Freshman year happened in March. It was about three weeks gone. Forgot about
Mel Robbins (08:28):
It. Hold on a second. I don't remember you having anxiety. I never
Oakley Robbins (08:30):
Told you about
Mel Robbins (08:31):
It. Why?
Oakley Robbins (08:33):
Because I didn't want to make it a huge thing and I didn't want to go to therapy and I didn't want to get into that. I didn't want to get into that. I was like, I can do this. I can solve this. I can get over this. We're good. And we were good freshman year. Wait, hold on a second though.
Mel Robbins (08:48):
Stop the train. Stop the
Oakley Robbins (08:50):
Phone.
Mel Robbins (08:50):
Stop the train. I want to get off.
Oakley Robbins (08:53):
No, you dare do that to me, John Mayer. We'll include that
Mel Robbins (08:56):
Later.
Oakley Robbins (08:57):
We'll include that later.
Mel Robbins (08:59):
I had no idea that you were struggling with anxiety for three weeks in freshman year of high school. You hit, why did you hide this from
Oakley Robbins (09:08):
Me? I struggled with anxiety my whole life. When I talk about that specific time period, it's when my anxiety was at this weird peak where I just couldn't really do anything. And I was terrified
Mel Robbins (09:20):
Of what,
Oakley Robbins (09:22):
No idea. I couldn't tell you freshman year, and I'll get into what it was later because I know now, but this is probably going to terrify you. I don't know if you've heard this story.
Mel Robbins (09:35):
I don't know.
Oakley Robbins (09:37):
I wrote a memoir about it in sophomore year. So there was this one day in freshman year that I remember. That's basically the only thing that I remember from when I was anxious like that. And this was actually the first day that I came. I wrote this memoir called The Blue Ceiling because artsy. And there was this moment where later in the day, I'll get into it. But anyways, I woke up and it was one of those, it was March days where it was, there was no snow, but it was kind of foggy and misty.
(10:10):
And where we live, when you look out the windows, you can't see anything. So you feel like you're in a snow globe. And so I woke up and it was one of those days where I was in a snow globe and I was like, you know what? I'm just going to stay in bed and watch some tv. That sounds nice. And so I was doing that and all of a sudden, boom, semi-truck hits me like, I'm lightheaded, I'm confused. I'm like, what's going on? Nothing feels normal. I don't feel safe right now. I'm really scared. I don't know what to do. I need to get out of my room. I need to go. I need to go. I need to go. And so I opened the door, I go downstairs and I see dad sitting in front of the fire and he's like, Hey dude, what's up? And I was like, I didn't tell him that I was freaking out, but I looked at him and I was like, I'm okay. It's whatever. And then I walked outside, I looked around, I took a deep breath. I was like, whatever this is, you've been anxious before. You can get over this. It's fine. Then I go back inside.
(11:08):
I wanted to hug dad. I wanted to, I dunno. I wanted to do something. I wanted to reach out. I wanted to get help. I wanted something and I couldn't do it. I just couldn't. Didn't want to.
Mel Robbins (11:19):
Why?
Oakley Robbins (11:21):
Because I didn't want to get into it. I didn't want to become a process. I didn't want to have to do stuff because I felt like I knew what I was doing. And then what happened is I went back up to my room, I kept watching TV and I remember going back downstairs to find dad and he wasn't there. And then I look towards the kitchen and I, oh my God, Rick thinking about this moment is so weird and scary and I would never do this ever. And it's super out of character. But I looked in the kitchen and I, you're going to be very nervous when you hear this. And I looked also maybe trigger warning for the viewers. I mean listeners. Sorry guys. Maybe trigger warning for the listeners. But I looked at the kitchen and I looked at the knife holder
(12:15):
And almost like a movie, I could fully imagine myself stabbing myself in the stomach with a knife. And part of me was like, I should. And I was like, holy fucking shit, this is not happening right now. I'm not suicidal. I don't want to kill myself. I want to live. So I go back outside. I am hyperventilating. I'm hyperventilating right now. And I look around, I'm breathing in and out. I'm like, am I going to be okay? It's okay, it's okay. It's okay, it's okay. And there was this feeling of lightheadedness and I just couldn't think clearly. And I felt like nothing I would do in that moment would ever matter. And so why do anything? And so that's why I had that thought is I should just stab myself. If I do something, and it doesn't matter, why do it anything. So why would I keep living my life if nothing I do will ever matter?
(13:05):
Why not just end it now? Then that night, the reason the memoir was called The Blue Ceiling is because later that night I had this ceiling projector. It projected this blue night sky onto my ceiling. It was super cool. Still have it. And I just remember this is going to be such a main character moment. But it was. And it is. I will fully admit to that. But I reached my hand up and I looked at my outline of my hand and I was just crying for no reason. And the darkness of my room is like my ceiling was blue and that was the only light. And I was just looking at my hand outline and crying and just being terrified. And then it basically just went away. It was gone. I never thought about it again. Freshman year it was gone. Didn't think about it.
Mel Robbins (13:57):
Can I ask a question?
Oakley Robbins (13:58):
Go for it.
Mel Robbins (14:00):
Are you nervous about what I might ask?
Oakley Robbins (14:02):
No, not really.
Mel Robbins (14:04):
Well, first I just want to say thank you for telling
Oakley Robbins (14:06):
Me. I feel like I told you that before, right?
Mel Robbins (14:08):
Not that part. No.
Oakley Robbins (14:09):
I could give you the memoir and you could read it on your own time if you wanted to.
Mel Robbins (14:15):
I would love to.
Oakley Robbins (14:16):
I would be happy to give it to you.
Mel Robbins (14:17):
I think it's really odd that you never told me that
Oakley Robbins (14:22):
I forgot
Mel Robbins (14:23):
About because we have a really good open relationship.
Oakley Robbins (14:26):
God, we have a great relationship as stated in the family podcast episode, which was
Mel Robbins (14:29):
Will you stop?
Oakley Robbins (14:30):
Wonderful. I'm plugging mom.
Mel Robbins (14:31):
I know. No, but so number one, I'm surprised that you never shared that with
Oakley Robbins (14:38):
Me. I know why I didn't share it with you.
Mel Robbins (14:40):
Why
Oakley Robbins (14:40):
I didn't share it with you. Because two reasons.
(14:44):
The first one was I didn't want to get into it. I didn't want to get a therapist. I didn't want to go on meds. I had horrible experiences with meds and therapists in my past, and I didn't want to go back into it because I was just like, no, no thanks. And two was because since I've had anxiety my whole life, I have, I wouldn't say every day, but every week I've probably had a small anxious panic, if you will. Like, oh my goodness, I'm anxious right now. I am anxious, I'm nervous, whatever, and I can handle it. I can do it. And so I felt like I could handle it. And the reason I didn't tell you is because I was like, I thought I handled it. I was like, it's over. It didn't come
Mel Robbins (15:23):
Back. That's interesting.
Oakley Robbins (15:24):
It did not come back.
Mel Robbins (15:25):
Yeah. I want to say one other thing. I want to address the fact that you may be listening to us talking about a very serious topic, and we're giggling and we're light about it.
Oakley Robbins (15:37):
People laugh when they're uncomfortable.
Mel Robbins (15:39):
Oh,
Oakley Robbins (15:40):
Except I wouldn't say I'm uncomfortable. I don't know if I'm uncomfortable right now, but I'm just like, I don't know. I feel like this is easier to talk about when I can throw in a joke.
Mel Robbins (15:50):
Got it.
Oakley Robbins (15:51):
Have some fun with it.
Mel Robbins (15:52):
That makes sense. Ok. I want to specifically address what you said a
Mel Robbins (15:56):
About that thought that you had about the knife, because those kinds of thoughts that are really big, scary, overwhelming thoughts, they can seem uncontrollable because they can come out of nowhere and they can start to get more and more frequent and overwhelming. They are very normal. In fact, according to therapists, almost everyone has experienced a situation like the one you described. But I want to talk further about this topic because it's helpful to talk about it. So hold onto that thought. I know there's more that we're going to talk about because I got to pause real quick for a word from our sponsors, and we're going to be right back. By the way, you're actually watching an episode of the Mel Robbins podcast behind the scenes.
(16:51):
So make sure you subscribe on YouTube and also follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts. You want to know why? Because the more this show grows, the more we can continue to bring this to at zero cost, and that's a really big deal for us. So thank you for supporting us by subscribing to YouTube and by also following Mel Robbins podcast on a podcast platform. Yeah. Alright, back to the show. Cool. Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins and I'm so excited you're here because I'm talking to our 17-year-old son Oakley, and he's just in real time unpacking a killer therapy session that he had tonight with Keith
Oakley Robbins (17:31):
30 minutes ago. I got off the phone. I feel like you're supposed to wait a day, but no, we just jumped right in.
Mel Robbins (17:38):
We just jumped right in. We are a deep end kind of family. Let's go. Right. Okay. Here's the other thing I wanted to say. We have two years from this, meaning we've had two years distance from this topic,
Oakley Robbins (17:49):
From the freshmen topic.
Mel Robbins (17:50):
Yes. You're in a amazing place mentally,
Oakley Robbins (17:54):
Spiritually, fantastically.
Mel Robbins (17:57):
And so there is no danger.
Oakley Robbins (17:59):
No.
Mel Robbins (17:59):
And so I'm not triggered by that. And the other thing I wanted to say is I would it surprise you to hear that having thoughts or a fleeting thought about ending your life or dying some death like that is normal?
Oakley Robbins (18:21):
Yeah. I feel like suicidal thoughts are, I feel like it's been talked about to the point where it's like you're at the worst of the worst. If there's suicidal thoughts, this is where shit is going down. It's bad. This is bad. This is the worst of the worst. This is horrible.
Mel Robbins (18:43):
I get it. You're at the end of the line
Oakley Robbins (18:44):
When the truth
Mel Robbins (18:45):
Is.
Oakley Robbins (18:45):
So when you hear that somebody has suicide, when you just said, would you think it's normal that most people do? I'd say no, because it's like
Mel Robbins (18:54):
No, most people do.
Oakley Robbins (18:55):
I wouldn't expect everybody to be at the worst of the worst, even though,
Mel Robbins (18:59):
Oh, I see what you're saying. What you're saying is this, because this has been talked about so much, particularly to your age group, it makes you think that when you have a thought like that,
Oakley Robbins (19:11):
It's more just that I feel like it's talked about where it's only the people with the worst condition are going to have that.
Mel Robbins (19:20):
Got it.
Oakley Robbins (19:21):
So when you say, oh, everybody has it, I'm like, really? I feel like it's only the worst of the worst that happens.
Mel Robbins (19:28):
No, it's normal to have those kinds of thoughts. So I just wanted to address what might sound like a weird tone or an insensitive tone to say we're two years away from it. Oakley's in an insanely amazing place. Oakley is in an incredible place in his life, in his mental health, his spiritual health. He's just happy. And it's somewhat normal to have those kinds of thoughts. And it's very clear that in, and one of the things that I think is very important, I've said it over and over and over again,
Mel Robbins (20:10)
Is this, there's a big difference between wanting to aim the pain or the anguish that you're feeling right now and actually wanting to end your life. You can figure out how to lessen the pain or the sadness or the weirdness or the anxiety that you're feeling. And you can do that. And you don't have to end your life. In fact, you make your life better by talking about these things that are overwhelming you
Oakley Robbins (20:42):
And
Mel Robbins (20:42):
Asking for help
Oakley Robbins (20:43):
Because you can't just keep them inside.
Mel Robbins (20:45):
No. Because what happens when you keep 'em inside,
Oakley Robbins (20:49):
It's kind of like a Coke can when you shake it up and then it explodes.
Mel Robbins (20:52):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's why I'm proud of you for talking about this oak, because it can be torture if you've got that trapped in your own head.
Oakley Robbins (21:01):
Oh my god, it's horrible.
Mel Robbins (21:04):
And I think most people, including the people that we've lost, that we love to death by suicide, I still would say most people, if somebody had assured them, if I can take away all the pain that you're feeling and you could still have your life, would you want to be here?
Oakley Robbins (21:25):
Hell yeah.
Mel Robbins (21:26):
Right.
Oakley Robbins (21:26):
Hell
Mel Robbins (21:27):
Yeah. Exactly. Now I want to talk to you listening and just check in with you. And what I specifically want to make sure that you hear me say is that it is normal to have these big, scary and overwhelming thoughts. And when they come out of nowhere or they seem to get louder and louder, it can be terrifying. I know it was terrifying when this all started happening with Oakley, and I'm telling you that this is normal because so many people suffer because they believe that the thoughts will never go away.
Oakley Robbins (21:59):
That's what I believed. I thought it would never end, and I didn't want to live the rest of my life with those thoughts.
Mel Robbins (22:04):
Now, if you knew the thoughts were going to end, would it have made you feel better?
Oakley Robbins (22:08):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (22:08):
If you knew having those thoughts pop in your mind was perfectly normal, would that make you have felt better in that moment?
Oakley Robbins (22:15):
Kind of. Yeah.
Mel Robbins (22:17):
I'm glad that you said that Oak, because I think so many people when they start to suffer because of these really scary thoughts, they don't tell anybody.
Oakley Robbins (22:26):
I didn't want to tell anyone
Mel Robbins (22:28):
I know, and I wish you would've told me, I wish you hadn't suffered alone. I wish you would've told somebody. Because the second that you start to talk about it, it immediately relieves you of the burden of carrying this on your own. You can figure out how to lessen the pain or the sadness or these awful thoughts that keep popping into your head. You can do that and you can do that. And you don't have to end your life. In fact, when you do that, you make your life better. And that's why I'm saying this to you as you're listening to me in Oakley, tell someone if you're having big and scary and overwhelming thoughts,
Oakley Robbins (23:14):
Tell anyone, just tell anyone.
Mel Robbins (23:17):
I also want to tell you, if you're having big and scary and overwhelming thoughts, you're not fucked up.
Oakley Robbins (23:23):
No.
Mel Robbins (23:24):
Those thoughts are temporary. They will pass and they're going to pass so much quicker when you get them out of your head and you tell someone, my friend Amy, who you know, Oak, she said, when you have big scary thoughts like that, she heard a therapist say, it's like being trapped in a paper bag. You can't say anything. You can't think of anything else to do. It sort of clouds your mind. But the second you find the courage to say it out loud to somebody, it's like that paper brag. It just shreds. And you'll realize and you'll see that you're not alone anymore. There are people there that can help you and will help you. And what you're experiencing is normal and you can get through this. And so I had a question because you just said to everybody, Oak, that you didn't tell me about what was happening freshman year.
Oakley Robbins (24:18):
No.
Mel Robbins (24:19):
And what would you advise somebody who is listening to this right now who relates to what you're talking about and maybe they haven't told anyone? The reason why I'm asking this is I know so many parents and aunts and uncles and teachers and therapists are going to forward this episode to young adults and college students in their life, and that just people they're worried about. So knowing that you just explained that you were worried I would make something of it, you didn't want to get into it, you thought you could handle it. Knowing what you know now, what would you say to that person who hasn't told somebody?
Oakley Robbins (25:00):
Well, if you are close in age to me, I don't know, teenager, mid twenties, mid, I don't know, college, high school, middle school, whatever, it does not matter what is going on in your head. If it is overwhelming, if it is scary, if it is stopping you from doing things that you can normally do, you should always, always, always, always tell someone. And you may be worried that it'll make things weird or it'll change things in your life, and it most likely will, but it is going to change your life for the better. In the beginning, for me at least, I thought to myself that, Hey, I can keep this in. I've done it before. I've done it 10,000 times before I can do it again. And yeah, you can do it in the beginning, but instead of waiting until you collapse, just get it over with right in the beginning and tell someone it's all you have to do.
Mel Robbins (26:09):
It'll make it better.
Oakley Robbins (26:10):
It will make it better.
Mel Robbins (26:12):
Do you wish you had told me earlier when it was happening in ninth grade?
Oakley Robbins (26:16):
Yeah,
Mel Robbins (26:17):
I do too.
Oakley Robbins (26:17):
I doubt it would've come back in sophomore year.
Mel Robbins (26:19):
Ooh, good point. Speaking of sophomore year, let's go there.
Oakley Robbins (26:25):
Let's do it.
Mel Robbins (26:26):
So what happened sophomore year? Because you said this anxiety hit you for a weak period in March freshman year,
Oakley Robbins (26:35):
Gone forgotten about,
Mel Robbins (26:38):
But the shit hit the fan
Oakley Robbins (26:40):
Sophomore year. Oh my God. So
Mel Robbins (26:43):
It's terrifying.
Oakley Robbins (26:45)
Flashback beginning of sophomore year.
Oakley Robbins (26:48):
Sophomore year is awesome. I loved my sophomore year. Great friends, great experiences, great classes, super fun. It was great. It was same time March or was it April? Might've been April, I think it was. We're going to have to track this this year. We will have to track this. Hey, it's coming. At that time, not yet. Anyways, April comes around and everything's good. Yeah, everything's good. And then in my English class I just talked about, my teacher had us write a memoir about anything we wanted. In sophomore year. I wrote about my experience that I had freshman year around the same time. And so by writing that, I basically mentally dove back into that mindset, not mindset, but into that time. And I remembered how I felt and I remembered what it was like. And I remember the hopelessness and the anxiety. Anyways, so I had brought myself back to those emotions. I remembered them. I kind of brought myself back to a time where I was super vulnerable and I had to go back and be vulnerable in that moment. And then
Mel Robbins (28:10):
I can see your eyes tearing up, just thinking about it,
Oakley Robbins (28:13):
Not really, not in this moment
Mel Robbins (28:15):
A little bit.
Oakley Robbins (28:16):
Okay,
Mel Robbins (28:16):
Not going to lie a little
Oakley Robbins (28:17):
Bit. And so those thoughts are fresh in my mind. And since I was a sophomore and it was a year later, I wanted to try and unpack it and think about what it actually meant, why I felt that way. And while I was doing that, a week rolled around and the next week in that class, my English teacher again showed us a movie. And this movie was about climate change. And it was about how in five years it's irreversible and we're fucked, and it was possible solutions and all this stuff. And then it told us what would happen if these solutions didn't happen. And so I come out of the movie and I'm like, what could we do realistically as a world? What can we do?
(29:11):
So I start thinking about my town and then my state, and then my country and then the world. And then I was like, what if we can't do anything? Can somebody else help us? And then I was like, is there somebody else? And I was thinking about the universe, and then I was thinking about expanding, expanding, expanding, expanding. We become a pebble, we become a grain of sand. We become literally like nothing. We become nothing in my mind. And all of a sudden it's like a light switch in my mind where I'm like, holy shit, nothing matters. Absolutely nothing matters to me. Nothing I do.
Mel Robbins (29:49):
Do not get yourself back in that state. No. Okay. I was just like, I don't, no, no, no,
Oakley Robbins (29:54):
No. So nothing matters. Nothing I do will have an effect. Nothing anybody does will change anything. So why do anything, why? And so I thought about that and I kept thinking about that being like there has to be an answer. There has to be an answer. Like a week passes and there's no answer. And then all of a sudden I started to get these nervous anxiety attacks. Where I'm lightheaded and I can't think, and everything is rushing out of my head and I'm scared and I'm confused. And it's all because in those moments, I keep telling myself that nothing I do is going to matter. No one I talk to, nothing I do nothing will ever change anything. It doesn't matter what I do. It doesn't matter what anybody does.
Mel Robbins (30:40):
The world's going to end
Oakley Robbins (30:41):
Because the world, not the world's going to end, but just in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. We do not matter. Got
Mel Robbins (30:48):
It. The thought process, I had change. And the inability,
Oakley Robbins (30:50):
No, climate change wasn't my thought.
Mel Robbins (30:52):
Okay.
Oakley Robbins (30:53):
It wasn't about the world ending. The movie about climate change sparked a thing about me thinking about
Mel Robbins (30:57):
Do I even matter
Oakley Robbins (30:58):
The bigger picture?
Mel Robbins (30:59):
And
Oakley Robbins (31:00):
Then I realized that I was like, I don't matter. Nobody matters. The world doesn't matter.
Mel Robbins (31:06):
Well, let me pick up the story now.
Oakley Robbins (31:08):
Well, it's not done yet.
Mel Robbins (31:09):
Well, because in this instance, you let us know what was going on.
Oakley Robbins (31:15):
That is what was going on. And it was moments of, there was one moment we were eating dinner together, and I just had to get up and go to the bathroom and look in the mirror and be like, you're okay. You're okay. You're okay. It's going to be okay. You'll get through this. And I was like, I can't get through this. I can't do this. And in that bathroom, I was like, if this keeps up, I am going to kill myself. I will. How scared I was. I couldn't live with this fact, and I couldn't accept the fact that I felt like nothing mattered.
Mel Robbins (31:50):
Yeah. It was a terrifying thing to go through with you.
Oakley Robbins (31:55):
It was so,
Mel Robbins (31:55):
Because you had a complete breakdown and you started explaining that these thoughts had been cascading and cascading, and you didn't want to think this, but you didn't know how to stop it. And I'll never forget that I was holding you and you were crying and you were scared, and I was crying and scared. And it had just come out of nowhere that you had gone from just thinking and thinking and thinking and not telling us to a complete breakdown. And I asked you, I was like, are you in danger right now? Are you going to hurt yourself? Do you remember what you said?
Oakley Robbins (32:31):
I said, no. I was
Mel Robbins (32:32):
Like,
Oakley Robbins (32:33):
I'm too scared to do that. I don't want to.
Mel Robbins (32:35):
Yeah. And you also said, no, but I can't live like this, mom. I can't keep thinking these thoughts. And I kept going, what thoughts? And you kept saying, I don't matter. Nothing matters.
Oakley Robbins (32:48):
I feel like even to this day, I still can't truly explain the thoughts that I was having. It was just like I can't wrap my head around them. And so I was dying to explain it to you. And every time I told you something, you'd be like, oh, so is it this? And I was like, that's not it. That's not it. And I couldn't figure out what to say.
Mel Robbins (33:10):
You did a really good job of explaining it. When I would have
Mel Robbins (33:28):
Very acute moments of anxiety when I was younger, I would have this thing happen that was equally scary oak where I didn't have the thoughts go first. Nothing matters. Nothing matters. I would all of a sudden feel this weird thing happen in my body. You call it like a switch that flipped. And all of a sudden I would have this experience where everything felt fake, almost like the Truman Show. Or that your whole life is a set that's fake. And I would repeatedly have this feeling that if the wind blew, all of these walls in this room would just flop down
Oakley Robbins (34:03):
Like a TV
Mel Robbins (34:04):
Set, like a TV set. And I would find myself in the middle of the desert
Oakley Robbins (34:09):
With
Mel Robbins (34:09):
No one in sight
Speaker 3 (34:11):
And
Mel Robbins (34:11):
The only person, and is earth even real? And is this room even real? That's how it was. Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. So I understand what that's like. And for those of you wondering what we did, I went into first responder mode. Do you remember?
Mel Robbins (34:28)
Do you remember?
Oakley Robbins (34:30):
You wouldn't let me sleep alone.
Mel Robbins (34:32):
I know I slept.
Oakley Robbins (34:33):
You wouldn't let
Mel Robbins (34:33):
Me in your bed. You
Oakley Robbins (34:34):
Wouldn't let me alone. You. Oh my God, you took me out of school for a week
Mel Robbins (34:40):
For a mental health.
Oakley Robbins (34:41):
We went back to Massachusetts
Mel Robbins (34:43):
To see doctors.
Oakley Robbins (34:47):
I'm trying to think about what else you did.
Mel Robbins (34:49):
I wouldn't let you be alone. I wouldn't let you sleep alone. I made you eat. Dad meditated with you. We got you into therapy as fast as possible.
Oakley Robbins (35:00):
Got on medication,
Mel Robbins (35:01):
Tried some medication that really helped
Oakley Robbins (35:03):
Still on it. It's the best
Mel Robbins (35:05):
Help you climb out of that. Oh, man. Sometimes you need a ladder.
Oakley Robbins (35:09):
Yeah, you do.
Mel Robbins (35:12):
Sometimes you also need a surfboard. And so they can work both ways when they work. So that is what led you
Oakley Robbins (35:20):
To therapy.
Mel Robbins (35:21):
To therapy.
Oakley Robbins (35:23):
What a segue. This is like, oh wait. Also, I feel
Mel Robbins (35:28):
Like it's a 25 minute segue.
Oakley Robbins (35:29):
I want to say another thing. Can I talk about the John Mayer song?
Mel Robbins (35:33):
Sure.
Oakley Robbins (35:33):
In terms of it. Okay. Jumping back before we go to Therapy, at the time, there was this song that I still love today, but I think it also contributed to my anxiety. There's this underground artist, his name's John Mayer. I don't know if any of you know who he is, but he's super, I think he's a pretty good artist. And there's one of his songs, it's called Stop This Train and basically Train Symbolizes Time and how Time keeps moving. And John, I don't know if I should call him John, we're not friends, but John Mayer wants the train or Time to Stop. And it's just like him being like, stop. Stop time. Let me stay where I am off. I want to get off. I just want to be with what I am right now. And then it ends with him talking to his dad and his dad's like, don't stop time, just, you just want to hold on and just keep going for as long as you can and just appreciate it and be in it. And I think, oh my goodness,
Mel Robbins (36:38):
It's making you emotional.
Oakley Robbins (36:39):
Oh my God. It always does.
Mel Robbins (36:40):
Why does that make you emotional?
Oakley Robbins (36:42):
Because time is just like, oh my God, that's too much. That's too scary. Not scary. But that's just so much to think about how time is just keep going to keep going.
Mel Robbins (36:50):
Yeah. I always have that feeling when I'm in a museum and I'll be looking at a painting and I lean forward and it's like something has been painted in the 18 hundreds.
Oakley Robbins (37:01):
Geez,
Mel Robbins (37:03):
Have you had that experience?
Oakley Robbins (37:04):
I'm way too bored in a museum too. I ever pay attention to dates. I would love to be like a museum guy, but can't. Why? Because it's just fun and mysterious and it makes you more interesting. I've actually gotten into museums more than I used to be, but I don't know. My memories of museums were always just like, this is the most boring thing ever. Staring at a wall for 15 minutes.
Mel Robbins (37:25):
Meanwhile, your mother is having a small existential crisis as she's looking at paintings, because as I lean forward and I'm like, this was painted in the 18 hundreds, that means there was a person standing in front of this canvas, 200 and whatever years ago. I can't even do the math on this. And they're not here anymore. And it makes me feel so small in the timeline of humanity, and it's the same kind of thing that you're talking about.
Oakley Robbins (37:58):
And so that song just sparked something in me where I was like, time is going to keep going. And it won't
Mel Robbins (38:04):
Slow down.
Oakley Robbins (38:04):
It won't slow down. And that's scary. And that added to everything. And that's the whole John Mayer story. Anyways, John Mayer, if you're listening, please contact me immediately. I love you.
Mel Robbins (38:16):
I remember that day
Oakley Robbins (38:17):
Because you texted, did I call you and I called me
Mel Robbins (38:20):
Sobbing again. You love to cry. You're good crier because you were so grateful for your life and you were grateful to be up here in southern Vermont and for our family. And that song played, and you were calling me from the high school parking lot crying about how much you love your life. Who knew that just three weeks later
Oakley Robbins (38:43):
It would boom,
Mel Robbins (38:45):
Hit the fan, it would completely collapse, and you would be in probably the worst mental breakdown I've ever seen. You really scary as a parent. And I'm proud of you though. I'm proud of you for asking for help, for telling us the truth, for seeing a therapist, for taking medication, for turning toward it to figure it out.
Oakley Robbins (39:12):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (39:13):
I'm really proud of you.
Oakley Robbins (39:14):
Thank you. So
Mel Robbins (39:16):
Tell me,
Oakley Robbins (39:16):
Keith, we segment
Mel Robbins (39:17):
Present day,
Oakley Robbins (39:18):
Keith present day, my therapist, the goat, Keith, he's awesome. He's in California. So we zoom and he's just this super chill spiritual guy. Used to be a surfer. He's just the coolest dude ever. And I love him because he's such a smiley guy and he is just fun. And he's taught me all this stuff. And so I guess this segue, and he basically helped me actually, our beginning lessons were a lot on purpose and what I am going to do about this thought process. And we came to the conclusion that, or I guess I came to the conclusion with his help that life does not matter, but us as individuals can make it matter
Speaker 3 (40:19):
By
Oakley Robbins (40:20):
Using purpose and finding our purpose. And so what I discovered with him is that these thoughts about life not mattering are going to be here, but that doesn't mean they're going to stay. Because over time, when I live my life, I'm going to discover what the reason is or the reason why I want to be here
Mel Robbins (40:51):
And why you matter.
Oakley Robbins (40:52):
And it doesn't have to change anything and it doesn't have to do anything. But I'm just looking for my purpose and my reason to be like, well, that's why I'm here and that's why I want to live. And that's why stuff like that.
Mel Robbins (41:04):
So I just want to see if you can go a little deeper in explaining something. Because when you first started working with your therapist, Keith, you were in the middle of these catastrophic kind of overwhelming, scary thoughts. And it's interesting that where you guys started was with the topic of purpose. And I understand that this was happening in parallel with a medical giving you a antidepressant to kind of act like a ladder to help you stabilize.
Oakley Robbins (41:40):
Still on 'em.
Mel Robbins (41:41):
Still on 'em.
Oakley Robbins (41:41):
David, still great. Still taking them guys. They're great.
Mel Robbins (41:45):
Okay. But what was it about the topic of purpose that really helped you see your way through these scary and overwhelming thoughts? Because the other thing that I've read about the research of this is that this is very common. Whether you're triggered by thinking about things like climate change or if you're thinking about racism or systematic discrimination, or you are experiencing extreme poverty or you lose somebody that you love, it can lead you to deeply contemplate the meaning of life. And people that are more empathetic or introverted tend to do this more, but it can happen to anybody. And so I found it really interesting that it was a conversation about purpose that helped you start to gain more control about the way that you were thinking. So can you explain how that helped you?
Oakley Robbins (43:01):
Yeah, I feel like what our conversation about purpose did for me was that even though at this point in time I felt like life had no meaning and there was nothing to really be alive for. The conversation about purpose kind of strengthened a thought in my mind about how that at one point in my life, I'll do something or I'll meet someone or I'll go somewhere that will just give me this feeling of belonging and a reason to live and a reason to be here. And that will be my reason to be on this earth. And one day I'll be like, Hey, this thing that I've discovered about myself that I really like is my reason to be here and this is why I'm on this earth.
Mel Robbins (44:03):
Can I go a little deeper?
Oakley Robbins (44:06):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (44:06):
Because at the time that this was happening, how would you describe your relationship with your family?
Oakley Robbins (44:16):
Good.
Mel Robbins (44:17):
Yeah.
Oakley Robbins (44:17):
I mean, I feel like my relationship has always been good.
Mel Robbins (44:21):
Yeah, it was good. And did you have friends?
Oakley Robbins (44:24):
Plenty. I've even had a girlfriend.
Mel Robbins (44:26):
And did you enjoy school?
Oakley Robbins (44:31):
Loved it. Still do.
Mel Robbins (44:33):
So the only thing about your life that wasn't working were these thoughts?
Oakley Robbins (44:40):
Yeah, these thoughts. It's not even that it fully clouded my judgment. I still loved my friends and you guys and everybody in my life, but I just didn't see why that mattered
Mel Robbins (44:54):
Because you have all this stuff handled and now your mind is starting to take you to these dark places. Got it. And I think that's important because it just goes to show you no matter what's happening on the outside in somebody's life, they seem like they're enjoying school. They have a great girlfriend, they've got good friends, they have a family that they're connected to, that their thoughts might actually still be a very scary place. And I wanted to point that out because you just can't assume that you know what somebody's reality really is. I mean, I didn't even know
Oakley Robbins (45:33):
Nobody did.
Mel Robbins (45:34):
Not in ninth grade,
Oakley Robbins (45:35):
No. Well, yeah.
Mel Robbins (45:37):
I mean, I knew very well in sophomore year, but I also find it very interesting because when you believe that you are here for a reason and that your life is leading you somewhere, that there is something unique for you to discover that's on the road ahead, might be tomorrow, might be a year from now, might be 10 years from now, might be longer from now, but kind of approaching life. It's almost like a gift that you unwrap to discover what's inside. That thought was a seed that he planted that has taken root. I hear you talking a lot pretty frequently about purpose.
Oakley Robbins (46:23):
It's like my personality now. All of my friends and everybody I talk to at some point, we always come into this conversation where I'm like, I'm actually, I don't see a reason to living and I'm actually looking for purpose. And they're like, what? You're a really intellectual
Mel Robbins (46:40):
Guy. I would label this an existential crisis, which is basically questioning existence.
Oakley Robbins (46:48):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (46:49):
That's what happened to you. And that happens to a lot of people. It's a very normal thing. And so are big and scary thoughts. Thank you for telling me that.
Oakley Robbins (47:03):
Thank you for listening. Is there
Mel Robbins (47:04):
Anything else on that topic that you want to share?
Oakley Robbins (47:07):
No. I don't know. Anything else you want to know?
Mel Robbins (47:10):
Are you okay right now?
Oakley Robbins (47:12):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (47:15):
Is that an honest answer?
Oakley Robbins (47:17):
Yes. It's
Mel Robbins (47:19):
When's the last time you had a big and scary thought?
Oakley Robbins (47:24):
To be honest, the thoughts are still,
Mel Robbins (47:30):
They're
Oakley Robbins (47:30):
There every day, but they're more like in the back of my head kind of thing where it's like, oh yeah, this is true. And I'm just like, well, yeah, it is true, but who cares?
Mel Robbins (47:42):
What happens to me a lot?
Oakley Robbins (47:43):
What?
Mel Robbins (47:44):
Every time I get on a plane, a big, scary, overwhelming thought enters my mind. And the thought is, what if this is it? And then I think about how much I love you guys, and I think about how grateful I am to have had an extraordinary life. And I say, whatever's going to happen is going to happen. And that is a way that I deal with a big and scary and overwhelming thought. It's normal. I don't resist it or go, oh no, there it is again. I just go, oh, there's that thought.
Oakley Robbins (48:26):
Yeah, you can acknowledge it.
Mel Robbins (48:27):
We just acknowledge it. Oh, there I go. Life is, I'm having that thought that this is all meaningless. I'm sitting in a classroom in high school learning biology. I don't really care. Where is this leading? Oh, I know where this is. Leading
Oakley Robbins (48:41):
Biology is actually super interesting.
Mel Robbins (48:44):
That one there. Well see, there's meaning there. There's meaning there. I know where this is leading. It's leading me to something that only I am meant to discover on this journey called life.
Oakley Robbins (48:55):
Boom.
Mel Robbins (48:56):
So do you have a sense of what your purpose is?
Oakley Robbins (49:00):
Absolutely not. But doesn't, that's not daunting to me. I'm 17. I'm not expecting to have it all figured out. I know that it's going to take a while. 10, 15, 20, 25. It could take as long as it needs to. And I'm okay with that because I just know that at some point in my life I will find something where I'm like, this is it. This is why I'm here and this is what I want to do.
Mel Robbins (49:25):
I think I have something for you to chew on if you want to hear it.
Oakley Robbins (49:28):
I don't because it's like for me, this my, you can tell me your purpose and you can tell me what you think mine is, but I need to find mine. It has to come from me, and I have to believe that. And that's only going to be genuine if it's from me. So I guess basically, if any of you are worried about me out there, appreciate it. But
Mel Robbins (49:51):
Should they be?
Oakley Robbins (49:52):
No. This then segues into tonight, they just told me something that I really resonated with me.
Mel Robbins (50:00):
Oh, I want to hear it. So this was a thing that made you walk into the kitchen?
Oakley Robbins (50:04):
I mean, I always walk into the kitchen after Keith and I'm like, I love Keith because Keith is awesome.
Mel Robbins (50:09):
Okay, so this was a little life-changing thing.
Oakley Robbins (50:11):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (50:13):
Set the table. Let me hear it.
Oakley Robbins (50:14):
So he was basically like when you were born, when your mom and your dad, I'm going to quote my biology teacher, when your mom and your dad did the special hug you Wait, that what? Your high school? Yeah, my high school. It's so funny. In class we're talking about DNA and natural selection and stuff like that. Whenever my high school teacher talks about how there's offspring created, he's like, when the mom and the dad do the special hug, it's like, it's like, okay. So when you and dad did the special hug
Mel Robbins (50:51):
Last night,
Oakley Robbins (50:55):
Whatever, when you and dad did the special hug and conceived me, my universe was created.
Mel Robbins (51:05):
Yes.
Oakley Robbins (51:06):
The universe that I live in was created for me. And he basically told me where it was like, this is going to sound super self-centered at first, but I have had the belief for my whole life where it's like I am the most important person to me.
Mel Robbins (51:22):
Yes, you should be.
Oakley Robbins (51:23):
Which should be true for everybody.
Mel Robbins (51:24):
Yes.
Oakley Robbins (51:25):
And it's not true for everybody because humans were evolved from a form where we had to be social and put others in front of us to basically survive. So
Mel Robbins (51:37):
It
Oakley Robbins (51:37):
Feels normal and it feels right to do it now, but in reality, the most important person to yourself is you. And he was basically just like when you do anything, you should ask yourself, do you want to live in your universe where this happens? So it's like paint a hypothetical situation. Let's say you are about to go behind your friend's back and do something wrong that would hurt them. Do you want to be in a universe where you've done that?
(52:11):
Do you want to remember that? And he was like, you can keep asking yourself this question because if you think about it, you life is your own and you pick and choose what happens in your life. And so before anything happens, you should ask yourself, do I want this to remain in my life?
Mel Robbins (52:35):
Yeah, it stays there. You're
Oakley Robbins (52:36):
Right. It will always say that.
Mel Robbins (52:37):
And I have this vision almost like an illustration of somebody and they're in a dark room and there's this particle thing all around them, and that's the universe. And so interesting.
Oakley Robbins (52:52):
It's just how this is your life. Even if what I took away from it is that even if life and our existence on earth does not matter, even if that's true, you are still experiencing a life. You still feel the emotions from that life. You still experience things. You still live it. And so just because life does not matter, you are still living a life and you should be living a life
Mel Robbins (53:36):
In a universe,
Oakley Robbins (53:37):
In a universe that is your own that you enjoy.
Mel Robbins (53:40):
Yes.
Oakley Robbins (53:41):
Because that's all you can do.
Mel Robbins (53:43):
Yeah.
Oakley Robbins (53:44):
That's all you need to do.
Mel Robbins (53:45):
And it's all you should do.
Oakley Robbins (53:46):
It's all you have to do.
Mel Robbins (53:47):
We're so busy chasing shit outside our own universe.
Oakley Robbins (53:52):
All that matters is what is right in front of you.
Mel Robbins (53:56):
How did that flip a switch for you?
Oakley Robbins (54:00):
Because I felt like I was on the hunt for the big answer, the big purpose, the big question. It was going to come to me and I was going to be like, whoa. Enlightened, floating meditation Buddha over here. But it was more just like purpose will come to me, but in the meantime, I'm going to be present to what I feel and what I do, and so why not feel and do what I want to.
Mel Robbins (54:39):
I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I got a lot out of that visual of the universe and that that's the universe that gets created at conception and that at least when you become an adult, you really do get to choose what's a part of it and what's not.
Oakley Robbins (55:04):
Yeah. And you can choose what's left and what isn't. And anything you do will remain. So you should always be asking yourself, in my universe, do I want there to be a part of me that has done this?
Mel Robbins (55:20):
Yeah.
Oakley Robbins (55:21):
Your extraordinary ordinary life.
Mel Robbins (55:24):
You're extraordinary ordinary life. Say something more about that.
Oakley Robbins (55:29):
It's from the movie about time,
Mel Robbins (55:31):
Our family's favorite movie.
Oakley Robbins (55:33):
It's the best movie ever.
Mel Robbins (55:34):
Why is it the best movie ever?
Oakley Robbins (55:38):
Because it has its messages more about spending your time wisely and being with the ones you love.
Mel Robbins (55:47):
Yeah. Ultimately, that's what life's about in my opinion. Love letting it in, giving it to other people, being present to it. Say that quote again that you love.
Oakley Robbins (55:59):
So there's actually two quotes that I really like. The first one is, we're all traveling through time together every day of our lives, all we can do is do our best to relish this remarkable ride. The second one is I just try to live every day as if I've deliberately come back to this one day to enjoy it as if it was the full final day of my extraordinary ordinary life.
Mel Robbins (56:26):
That's beautiful. Thanks. Of
Oakley Robbins (56:29):
Course.
Mel Robbins (56:30):
Well, I love you.
Oakley Robbins (56:34):
Love myself. And I love you too.
Mel Robbins (56:39):
You're the best dude. Thank you. Mom's the
Oakley Robbins (56:41):
Best. Thank you.
Mel Robbins (56:43):
Oh my God. Ding, ding. Alright, well, in case nobody else tells you today, I wanted to tell you that I love you.
Oakley Robbins (56:51):
So do I.
Mel Robbins (56:51):
And I believe in you.
Oakley Robbins (56:52):
I do as well. Make this universe your own,
Mel Robbins (56:57):
Make your universe your own. You get to choose what is staying in that universe and what you're not taking in there. And I love what you said. You might as well just enjoy it.
Oakley Robbins (57:08):
That's all you got to do.
Mel Robbins (57:09):
Alright everybody. We love you.
Oakley Robbins (57:11):
Love you too.
Mel Robbins (57:11):
Talk in a few days. Bye. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, bye. God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.
Key takeaways
You can love school, have friends, be close with your family, and still be silently drowning in thoughts that feel overwhelming, scary, and totally unshareable.
You don’t need to find your purpose right now, you just need to believe that it exists and that someday, somehow, you’ll find a reason to say, “This is why I’m here.”
Your thoughts are not facts, and even the darkest ones can pass when you decide to tell someone and let the light back in.
Before you do something, ask yourself: “Do I want to live in a universe where this has happened?” because every action you take stays with you.
You don’t have to fix your whole life, you just have to start living it in a way that makes you feel like your universe is worth being in, because it is.
Guests Appearing in this Episode
Oakley Robbins
Oakley Robbins is Mel's son and speaks from his perspective as a 19 year old navigating today’s challenges.
Resources
-
- Child Mind Institute: How to help kids worried about “bad” thoughts.
- Anxiety & Depression Association: What are intrusive thoughts?
- Anxiety Canada: Everyone has thoughts that are upsetting and strange.
- Overcoming Unwanted, Intrusive Thoughts: Sally Winston & Martin Seif
- Psychology Today: Existential crisis; grappling with the ‘monster’ within
- Greater Good Magazine: How to help teens find purpose.
- The Hechinger Report: Helping teens find their purpose.
- Check out this classic book: Man’s Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl
- Child Mind Institute: Tips for communicating with your teen.
- Ted.Com: How to have a real conversation with your teen.
- American Psychological Association: What neuroscience tells us about the teen brain.
- U.S. News: Teens, your brain needs real food.
- Centers for Disease Control: National and state trends in anxiety (2021).
- John Mayer: Stop This Train (song)
2 Million Readers.
1 Life-Changing Newsletter
Simple and Straight-to-the-Point...
Just Like Mel.
