Episode: 60
Incredible Research From Harvard: 4 Simple Tools to Conquer Your Fear
a Solo Episode
Stop letting fear hold you back.
Use science not only to reframe your fears into excitement but to conquer them once and for all.
Mel teaches you a Harvard-backed technique that leverages your body, chemistry, physiology, and neural pathways to your advantage.
The #1 fear most people have is public speaking. This technique will help you speak up at work, give an incredible toast at a wedding, and perform better on tests.
Listen on:
It is time to stop just being alive and truly start living. You have a big, beautiful, amazing life that is just waiting for you to trust. Fall into it.
Mel Robbins
Featured Clips
Transcript
Mel Robbins (00:03):
Can you hear that? That right there is the Dallas Convention Center, 3000 women in the audience. I am taking the stage today and I am taking you to work with me. The fear of public speaking is the number one fear that people have. And I don't even mean necessarily talking on a stage like I do for a living. I'm talking about the fear of speaking in public, sharing your ideas at work, expressing what you need to other people. Here's the big trick. We reframe fear into excitement. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Can you hear that? That right there is the Dallas Convention Center, 3000 women in the audience. I am taking the stage today and I am taking you to work with me. Are you ready for this? I'm ready for this. Let's fucking go. Alrighty, you ready? I'm serious.
(01:02):
It's take you to workday for Mel Robbins. I've been wanting to take you on the road with me for months ever since we launched this podcast. And I do want to thank those of you that come up literally every single day. It doesn't matter where I am, grocery store, airplane, hotel lobby, standing in line at a gas station. I love meeting you. Love it. If you ever see me, I want you to know something. I would be mad if you didn't use the five second rule, five worth two, one to push yourself to come up and say hello. And the reason why is this is our podcast, the 17 million downloads that we have had in just over four months. That means 17 million people in 200 countries have been impacted by this show because of us, you and me, were sharing the episodes. Were showing up twice a week.
(01:54):
And so I love meeting you because it means that when I'm sitting in a hotel room in Dallas like I am right now, or I'm above my garage in southern Vermont like I often am, that no matter where I am, I'm thinking of you. And I'm thinking of the fact that this conversation is happening between us and that makes me show up in a way that I wouldn't show up if I weren't meeting you or hearing from you and reading your letters. And so just thank you for that. And today we're going to talk about the biggest fear that people have in life. Seinfeld famously joked that the person in the coffin isn't scared. It's the person who has to speak about the person in the coffin, who is the fear of public speaking, is the number one fear that people have. And I don't even mean necessarily talking on a stage like I do for a living.
(02:49):
I'm talking about the fear of speaking in public, sharing your ideas at work, expressing what you need to other people, having hard conversations with friends and family, talking at a meeting at school, pushing back on something with a doctor, like just being able to express yourself. And the reason why this is such a huge fear for people is because it is a moment of intense vulnerability. The second that you go to speak at work, what happens? Everybody turns and all eyes are on you and suddenly you feel like there's a spotlight on you and you get really worried about being judged. Same thing happens when you have to speak in class, right? When you get called on in class, most people get a little nervous. A lot of people hated that moment in elementary school when you had to read out loud. That's a moment of public speaking.
(03:41):
And we are so afraid in that moment when the spotlight is on us. And I've shared in a number of episodes that I used to be terrified of public speaking. I would turn bright red when I got called on as a little kid in law school. I would start coughing attacks or I would leave the room as a young lawyer. I would wear a scarf because I'd get these neck rashes as I was talking to the judge and to the prosecutor in a small courtroom. And I just figured I would be the kind of person that always had a bright red face, always had an awful case of hives on my chest, always felt my tongue going dry. And I hated it. I hated it, hated it, hated it. And today what I'm going to talk about is how I went from being afraid of public speaking to becoming. I am almost like it sounds braggadocious,
Mel Robbins (04:41):
But the truth is, I went from that to being the most successful female speaker in the world, more than 111 speeches a year on the corporate circuit. So Microsoft, Starbucks, JP Morgan, at and t, any kind of company you can imagine. I've been there. Now the first question I always get is how did you get into the speaking business and how did you become the most sought after female speaker on the corporate speaking circuit mill? Well, the truth is, I didn't set out to do anything. I've told you guys a story about how that TEDx talk happened by accident in 2011 and how I had a 21 minute long panic attack while I was giving that talk. And I never thought I would speak ever, ever, ever again. And then something crazy happened a year later, somebody put the TEDx talk online and for another year it went crazy viral and I didn't even know it was online.
(05:36):
And so we're talking 2013. Now by mid 2013, people start to reach out to me on Facebook and say, Hey, I saw that thing in San Francisco. And I'm like, were you there? They're like, no, it's online. I'm like, it's online. And I realized, holy cow, this thing's online. It's got like a million views. That's crazy. And people kept reaching out and it was mainly women's conferences and they were asking if I wanted to come and do a breakout session, and they wanted me to just repeat that TEDx talk. And so I had no idea that this was an industry or a business. I looked at speaking as something that famous people do, something that sports people do, something that people that are major, major authors must do. So I didn't have a book. I didn't have anything. I just had my little secret five second rule in my back pocket.
(06:28):
I had a TEDx talk that had mistakenly gone viral online. And now I had people asking me if I would come and I would talk in breakout sessions at women's conferences. And I'm like, okay, that sounds fun. Now keep in mind, in my life, this is the moment when Chris has left the restaurant industry. He is bottomed out, not functioning, focused on getting sober. And I am working two jobs trying to keep things afloat. I mean, it is a really scrambling time in our life. And so I said yes to these things and I'll never forget it. In 2013, I did seven talks. I think it was all for free. I had no idea that people got paid to do this. And I was doing it because I wanted to escape the pressure of my life. And if I'm being perfectly honest, as nervous as I was that about doing this, and I'd get a big neck rash and I'd turn bright red on my face as nervous as I was.
(07:34):
There was something about being asked to tell my story and inspire other people. That really lifted me up and made me feel, I don't know, it's sort of like how you fluff a pillow up when it's looking deflated. It just lifted my spirits a little bit to have the focus be on helping other people. And so it was like a lifeline, but I was still so nervous when I tell you I was nervous. I mean, I was so nervous. I not only wore Spanx, I would put a pad in the Spanx because I was sweating so much. I had all kinds of wardrobe fails because I would literally sweat like Niagara Falls. That's what I do. I have a hot flash as I get nervous. So I'll never forget it. It was the Pennsylvania Women's Conference. It was Hillary Clinton, I think it was the keynote speaker.
(08:24):
And then there was this incredible woman who was the principal of Strawberry Hill Mansion who I just love. And she spoke in the main room, 14,000 women there. And I was in this breakout session and it was the largest room I had ever been in. I almost had a heart attack. There were like a thousand seats set up, and I had never been in a room that size. So I give this talk, which was largely just a mimic of the TEDx talk that I did. And this woman comes up to me afterwards and she's like, oh my God, you were so great, which was really nice to hear. And she said, can I ask you a question? I was also a speaker this morning. I was in a breakout room on a panel and I just want to ask you a question speaker to speaker.
(09:06):
And I was like, of course. And she said, did you get your check yet? And I said, check, wait a minute, you got paid for this? And she looked at me with horror and said, oh my God, I'm really sorry. I just assumed you had a bigger, I just assumed that you got paid. I'm like, people get paid for this. People like normal people get paid for this. And I was so flab. It was one of those moments where you're just like, am I the stupidest fucking idiot on the planet? Does everybody else know this ship at me? And I was so dumbfounded that for two weeks I was just stunned at what an idiot I was. I didn't even think to ask anybody to pay me to do this because I didn't think I was any good at it. So...
Mel Robbins (09:52):
I made myself a promise. I said, you know what? I have no idea what to charge. You don't have a book. You should probably write one of those too. But first you got to figure out how to keep the lights on in the house and keep the family afloat and keep paying the bills. And I thought, here's what I'm going to do. I am going to just, when the next person calls and says, we'd like to book you to speak, I'm going to pause 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, take a breath. And then I'm going to say, I think I'm available. What's your budget? And then I'm going to wait. I'm going to listen to the number, and then I'm going to 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, pause. Normally I'm double and pause and see what happens. I didn't even know what to price myself at. So two weeks later, the phone rings and it's this guy in Dallas, Darren Paul, and he had been in the speaking business for like 20 years. And he says, blah, blah, heard. And I got to thank his wife, Lori. She's the one that saw my TEDx talk going viral on Facebook. And she said to her husband, you got to book this woman for our sales conference for Jay Hilburn. And so Darren calls me first phone call, I receive no joke when I've made myself this promise. And he asks if I'm available five months from now in Dallas in August to speak at the National sales conference for this company, Jay Hilburn. I said, I think I'm available. What's your budget?
(11:22):
And he said, $10,000. I dropped the fucking phone, had liens on our, I had no fucking idea people, what the 10,000 fucking dollars? Are you fucking kidding me? I'll literally, I'll strip for that. I mean, that's unbelievable. So I forgot the second part. I was like, okay, I'm in. I'm in. Yes, yes, yes. Now luckily I was so nervous, and sometimes fear is a fantastic thing because it motivates you. I was so nervous because I felt so unworthy of that amount of money that I did something really smart and fear motivated me to do this. I was so nervous that I would fall flat on my face because I believed I was not worthy of that kind of money because I had never made that kind of money that I used half of the budget to pay a graphic designer to help me create a PowerPoint because I needed at least something that would look like that.
(12:22):
And I practiced and I practiced and I prepared. And that's one of the big things that you got to take away. One of the best freaking tools for nerves is preparation. The more you prepare, what you're actually doing is working through your own resistance to this shit. You're creating muscle memory. You're rehearsing, will you choke? Maybe, but not after I teach you the tools that I'm going to teach you today, but you will never get better or conquer your fear of doing this public speaking if you're unwilling to prepare. So part of the nerves might be that you're not even preparing enough. You're not rehearsing, you're not rehearsing in front of people,
Mel Robbins (13:06):
You're not taking the time to edit your mark. It takes time. And rehearsal is so important. If you prepare, you're removing nerves. You're setting yourself up to win. And so think about preparing like you're just building this muscle. It doesn't take the nerves away or the fear away or the stakes away, but by God, it's going to help these tools work because you will have the preparation. There's this really famous quote that I love that I talk about all the time. It's by Charlie Bird Parker. I don't even know if this is a real story, but I love this quote.
Mel Robbins (13:38):
Apparently Charlie Bird Parker, the famous jazz musician, was asked by a journalist who was writing a big article about him, how the hell do you do what you do with that horn? And you know what Charlie Bird Parker said? He said, well, first you got to learn your instrument. And that takes years, decades of practice. You got to study it, you got to rehearse. You got to do your scales. You got to practice over and over and over and over again until you learn that instrument.
(14:13):
And then you forget all that shit they taught you and you just wail. And so preparation allows you to tap into your genius. Preparation is what allows you to improv, to freestyle, to be fully expressed, the highest you to channel to tap into something. And it's in there in you. That's why you feel this push pull and this desire to show up more in your life. So I spent all this time preparing and I showed up, and there are moments in your life that really matter. And this was one of them I met this moment. I stepped on that stage with my neck rash and my rosy cheeks and my dry mouth, and I fucking destroyed it because I had prepared because I was afraid. Now, I also had the biggest wardrobe failure I have ever had on a stage. So I wore this dress because at the time I was a commentator for CNN, and I used to wear this dress all the time on CNN.
(15:26):
And I thought, okay, if somebody's paying you that kind of money, you got to look like you're on tv. So I wore this kind of power lady dress. You can already imagine it, right? It's got sort of the V-neck and the pencil skirt, and it's hard to walk in. It looks good on television, but you're not moving and you're sitting in a chair. I had never looked at it with a light behind me. And at the end of the speech, I just filet this thing. I walk off that stage.
Mel Robbins (15:56):
It was the first time it had ever been projected on a jumbotron in an arena. And after the speech, this woman came out to me, she was darling. She's like, oh my god, my God, I love the fight rule. Thank you so much. It was amazing. I'm like, oh my God, here, I'm going to pay my mortgage this month. This is great. And she said, you were so great. I have to tell you something. And I'm like, what? She said, don't ever wear that dress again. I said, why? She said, I don't even want to tell you this. I said, what? She said, I could not only see that you were wearing Spanx, but that you had a thong on underneath them. That dress is so see-through and you could see it all on the jumbotron.
(16:38):
Okay? We went from winning to wanting to melt and crawl into a hole. But fuck it. Honestly, when you fuck up, you know what? The research shows people like you more. And that shows in that comment that by the way is called the pratfall effect, that your imperfections make you more likable, more trustworthy. It makes you as an expert be somebody that people lean toward. And you've had this experience, haven't you, where you might have somebody that's got a PhD that's a know-it-all that's really snooty. And talking down to you, you're kind of like, I don't want to learn from you. But when you got somebody that is on a stage or teaching you something or just somebody you meet, if there's something that humanizes them, it's so builds trust. And that's an important thing to understand because the idea here is not that you're going to get it perfect, it's that you're willing to try.
(17:32):
So maybe that's why I destroyed it. I dunno, everyone was rooting for me. You could see the Spanx and the thong underneath the dress, but that dress went in the fricking trash can at the hotel, never to see the light of day again. Although I hope somebody pulled it out and used it. But I never looked back from that moment because Darren, who booked me had been in this business for 20 years, and he said, I got to tell you, you are top three of all time and the single best female speaker I have ever seen in my entire life who manages your business. And I said, you do. And he has run my speaking business ever since. And so along the way, it took me several years to truly get over my nerves and I don't get nervous. I care deeply. I get super intentional about the stakes because I really want to make a huge difference and I want to destroy it on these stages and entertain and empower and inspire and all of it.
(18:34):
So I do care about how I perform when I'm stepping on a stage or I'm behind this mic. But I have come up with incredible ways to not only face my fear of public speaking, but to conquer it and to use science and really amazing mental reframes to tame those nerves. And that's what I'm going to teach you today because you know what I want for you? I want your fullest expression. I want fear to stop holding you back. I want you to trust fall into your life. I want you to take that first step and climb the staircase to the things that you want in your life. And there are too many places where fear holds you back and keeps you silent and has you questioning yourself. And so that was me too, and I just chipped away at this fucker and I'm so glad that I did because I just can't even imagine how much I would yearn for what I'm doing now without even realizing it.
(19:35):
But the first step is admitting that there are fears that are holding you back. And so we're going to use public speaking because it's the number one fear for everybody. Alright, let's hit pause when we come back. I've got a really cool surprise coming up and I don't even know how this is going to go. As I said, am in Dallas, and while I was taping this, I got a text from a woman who is a keynote speaker. She's from Venezuela, and she spoke today at this huge conference in Dallas with 3000 women at it that I am the closing keynote speaker for. And I guess she has been following my career and she's always wanted to meet me, and I love meeting other speakers on the corporate circuit. I love supporting other people who are up and coming. I want to get as many diverse and female voices on these stages as I possibly can.
(20:22):
And so if I can make the time, I always do. Do you know what her specialty is? What she teaches Google and Microsoft and people around the world how to conquer your fears. Are you kidding me? Is that not synchronicity? So I'm going to take a quick pause for our sponsors and when we come back, you're going to hear the moment she knocks on the door of my hotel room. I've never met this woman. Her name is Michelle Poler. She's a author. She teaches people around the world about conquering their fears, and she's coming up and she's going to tell you her best tips for conquering your fear of public speaking, why you need to do it, and more importantly, what fear actually is and why it matters that you face it. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Mel and I wanted to jump into the middle of that podcast episode you were watching to make sure you knew about a free opportunity that I created for you.
(21:20):
It's a new three part training called Take Control with Mel Robbins. It is packed with science. It is packed with action. It's exactly what you need right now. I know that you are tired of feeling like you're in survival mode. You're tired of merely coping, and it is time to tap back into your excellence and power again. Let me coach you, let me guide you on the steps that you need to take in order to level up and start executing. It's going to feel so great to start winning again. All you got to do is click on the link right there in the caption. It's mel robbins.com/take control. It is free. It is for you, and you need to be in it. Now, let's go back to the podcast. All right, it's Mel and Michelle Poler's about to walk in. I've never met her. I hope this is good.
(22:13):
I'm sure it will be. What's amazing, this entire podcast is one giant trustful and we were going to tape an episode today about A DHD, and I just had not gotten the studies that I wanted to walk you through printed, and I felt completely, I just wasn't ready. And so I'm like, we're, we're going to talk about the number one fear in the world, which is public speaking. And I went to sit down, I get this text, it's from a woman who wrote a book called Hello Fear, that's speaking at the same thing as me. And I think in life you got to learn how to trustful. You got to take that step forward before you're ready. There's that famous Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Quote about how I'm going to just completely get this wrong, but it's about how you don't need to see the whole staircase. You just need to take that first step and the staircase appears and it is so true. And that's why I'm so excited for this. And I'm even starting to get nervous because I'm looking at my phone and she has two hours to catch a flight and she's speaking at another event across the country tomorrow morning, so she can't miss it. We got 10 minutes to squeeze this in 10 minutes, but I'm doing a trust fall and so is she.
(23:41):
Are they here? Really? They're here. Knock on the door louder. Welcome about Robin's podcast. See Michelle. Alright, you sit down because we're going to make make fast work of this. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. This
Michelle Poler (24:00):
Is crazy. It's really crazy. I love it. Okay, there, she's, you're so cute. Thank you. And
Mel Robbins (24:06):
Smart. Amazing. Thank you so much. I'm a huge fan. Well, we're now huge fans of yours. Cool. I love it. Okay, so we're talking about fear. Yes. My favorite topic. Hello. Fear.
Michelle Poler (24:22):
Hello. Fears. Yeah.
Mel Robbins (24:23):
What made you decide that you were going to conquer your fears by facing a hundred fears in a hundred days? Why on earth did you do that?
Michelle Poler (24:32):
Oh my gosh. Because I moved to New York, the city of my dreams, and I was not living my dream. I was too much in my comfort zone. And I heard this song by one republic called I Lived, and they're saying about all the bones they broke and the hearts they broke and everything. I'm like, I've never broken a bone in my life or a heart or whatever. I'm like, I'm not living. I started crying. I realized I'm alive, but I'm not living and I want to live my life.
Mel Robbins (24:56):
Okay, hold on. That was a big one. I'm alive, but I'm not living. I think a ton of people just went, shit, I'm alive, but I'm not living.
Michelle Poler (25:09):
And I was checking all the boxes. I was doing all the right things. I had a good job. I was already married. I was living in New York. Everything was like in paper. Perfect. But I wonder, am I happy or am I comfortable? And that's very different.
Mel Robbins (25:25):
Yes. So you go to your husband, what's his name?
Michelle Poler (25:28):
Adam.
Mel Robbins (25:28):
You turn to Adam and say, even though we've got this dialed in.
Michelle Poler (25:33):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (25:33):
I've decided I'm going to go and face my fears for a hundred days.
Michelle Poler (25:36):
Yeah.
Mel Robbins (25:37):
Did he look at you and say, absolutely, you're
Michelle Poler (25:40):
Crazy? No, he said, I'll support you a hundred percent. I'll help you face all your fears.
Mel Robbins (25:45):
Wow. So did you take leave from your job or what did you do?
Michelle Poler (25:48):
No, you cannot imagine I was, every single day I would wake up really early either to face a fear in the morning, then I would go to my job. I was in advertising, and then I was doing a master's in branding at the School of Visual Arts in New York every single day of the week.
Michelle Poler (26:04):
So I would have to either face a fear early in the morning during my lunchtime before I go to the masters or right after at 10:00 PM and then every day I would come back, edit a video and upload that to YouTube, put it on all the social media channels, and then go to bed for three, four hours and then go back.
Mel Robbins (26:20):
You know what this proves that if you feel like you don't have enough time, you don't have a big enough exciting game to play.
(26:29):
And there's even research about this that ironically, if you're super, super busy, the best way to reclaim your time is by adding in something really meaningful or challenging. And that's exactly what you did.
Michelle Poler (26:41):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What was the scariest thing
Mel Robbins (26:44):
That you did out of the hundred? Oh,
Michelle Poler (26:45):
I will tell you something. I get that question. I just got it today speaking twice, and it's really hard to answer because the biggest fear is the one you haven't conquered is the one you haven't faced. So if you ask me this in the middle of the challenge, I would say the next 50 fears. But now looking back, I can't even choose one because this is how my everyday would look like. I would be like, okay, today was not that bad. Tomorrow I will die. And the next day, same thing. Okay, not that bad. Tomorrow it will be the worst one. And then it was never
Mel Robbins (27:16):
As bad. Well, what was the one that you had the most anticipatory? Holy shit, I might actually die if I do this.
Michelle Poler (27:24):
Well, you will not guess my answer, but it's standup comedy. It was so scary doing standup comedy. So much more scary than I could ever imagine in a club in New York in front of a real audience. I was so scary more than skydiving and even posting nude in front of a drawing class, that was a really tough one. You post nude in front of a drawing class, that was one of the scariest one as well. So what was that like? It was really transformational, the whole experience because when I started I was so, I wanted to be as skinny as I can and hide all my imperfections. And then slowly as the time progressed, what I realized is that I'm not giving anything to the audience. I want to draw something interesting just here, thinking about myself.
Mel Robbins (28:09):
So are you sitting there like cross legs, arms across or your boobs? That's my good chin angle,
Michelle Poler (28:16):
Like that kind of thing? Yes. And then when I saw the other models there, they were all, they have curves and hair everywhere, and I'm like, I shaved before coming here. So I started bending more and creating interesting shapes and I was like, it's not about me, it's about them. And at the end, no one's judging us in the same way that we judge ourselves.
Mel Robbins (28:44):
Why is it important for the person that is listening to us right now, driving their car, walking by themselves? Why is it important for that human being to face their fear?
Michelle Poler (28:58):
I think the most important thing is that we get to live our most authentic lives. How
Mel Robbins (29:04):
Is fear, the access to your most authentic life?
Michelle Poler (29:07):
Because we hide ourselves. We hide who we are. We hide our needs...
Michelle Poler (29:11):
Because it is scary to speak up. It is scary to show ourselves. It is scary to experience rejection when we show who we really are and we will experience rejection when we show who we really are. But it's not a matter of being liked by everybody. It's a matter of resonating with the right people and attracting to you and to your life, the right kind of people, the people that value who you really are. So you don't have to hide or create this fake filter of yourself.
Mel Robbins (29:39):
Oh, it was the nude drawing one. What was really scary? One, I keep thinking about that.
Michelle Poler (29:45):
Yeah, A friend suggested that I was so mad. I'm like, why do you have to put that in my head? Yes, I am scared of that. I am in the process of facing all my fears. I can't now unsee this huge fear that I have. I hate you. So yes. Wow.
Mel Robbins (30:00):
What did you learn about yourself by doing the a hundred days, a hundred fears project?
Michelle Poler (30:09):
I learned that that feeling that you get when you're about to face a fear, that feeling it's in your heart and it's telling you don't do it, don't do it. That's probably your ego trying to protect you from facing rejection or embarrassment or losing your job or whatever it is. I always perceive that feeling as a sign that my body's telling me, don't go that way. After facing my fears and going through that feeling over and over again,
(30:39):
What I see is that that's also the feeling that tells you that there's growth in there. And I never saw it like that. So I ran away every single time and I missed out on so many opportunities because I was like, Nope, my intuition, I thought it was my intuition, but it was just, I think my ego or whatever it is that's trying to protect me from facing my fears, I thought they were telling me not go that way and it was exactly where I had to go. So now every time I experienced that and I feel uncomfortable, I choose
Mel Robbins (31:10):
Growth. I get that question a lot and I would love to hear your answer or any tool that you may have. For somebody who doesn't know the difference between true intuition and fear that's holding them back from reaching their potential, what's a tool or a technique somebody can use to try to tease that difference out?
Michelle Poler (31:31):
Well, so whenever I'm about to do something that is outside of my comfort zone and I have that feeling immediately I can see how my body's telling me don't do it.
Mel Robbins (31:41):
And
Michelle Poler (31:41):
All of this fears and negative thoughts start to pop into my brain and it builds like a brick wall and I can't see past that. And it's only when you focus on the rewards that you get to...
Michelle Poler (31:52):
See past those fears. So a lot of people will ask you the question, what's the worst that can happen? And then that's a really bad question. Do not ask that question.
Mel Robbins (32:01):
You'll see the worst.
Michelle Poler (32:02):
Yes, and the worst I know is maybe not dying or getting fired, but the worst is hurting your feelings and that is still as hurtful. So you don't want to go through that. But what I ask people is now change the question to what's the best that can happen? That's the only way you will get to see the rewards that are expecting you in the other side of fear. And if those rewards are not really exciting for you, then maybe that's a fear not worth facing. But if they are, then you have to go for it despite the fear that it may bring.
Mel Robbins (32:34):
I love that reframe because you're right when somebody says, well, what's the worst thing that could happen? They're trying to minimize your fear, but it actually has you laser focus on a fear which magnifies even the smallest worst thing that could happen. But when you reframe it to, well, what's the best thing that could happen?
Michelle Poler (32:51):
You see things in a whole different way. Just today, I spoke three times at this event and it was a new presentation, so I was so nervous and I told this to my community, I'm like, I'm really nervous. I'm giving out this new presentation, new material. And somebody asked Michelle, what's the best that can happen? Because they know that's my language and it helped me so much, so much. I immediately imagine my room full of people, people clapping, people laughing, people being inspired, even crying, whatever. I'm like, I'm ready. I'm ready for this.
Mel Robbins (33:21):
So I'd love to get your advice because we've been talking about the fear of public speaking and how terrified so many people are of public speaking, and not even just getting on a stage, but even just sharing an idea in a meeting at work or starting a hard conversation or that moment where you're at a meeting at school and you want to say something, but your fear holds you back and keeps you silent. What advice do you have to help somebody learn how to conquer their fear of speaking either on a stage or at work or being more vocal in life?
Michelle Poler (34:08):
For me, what helps me the most is to feel like I own my story, to make it ownable. Even if you have to share the profits of the year or whatever, share your personal story behind that. Attach some of your journey to whatever you want to share, even if it's a tool. For example, it's so easy to go on Google and research, what am I going to talk about? Let me talk about this topic and then Google will tell you the answer. And then anybody can Google that same answer, but only you can share a very personal story about that. For example, when they invited me to speak at Facebook, they asked me specifically to talk about the imposter syndrome. Everybody here experiences that please talk about it. And I started researching what's the imposter syndrome, how to get over the imposter syndrome. And I started adding that to my presentation and I'm like, what am I doing? I'm just repeating what Google is telling me. Is that even legal? No, I should be talking from my own experience. So I thought, when was the time where I experienced the imposter syndrome and what helped me in that moment?
(35:13):
I added that story to my presentation. And even today I shared, I've been sharing that story for seven years.
Mel Robbins (35:18):
What is the story?
Michelle Poler (35:19):
Oh my god. It was a time where I was just starting as a speaker. How old were you?
Michelle Poler (35:27):
Not that long ago. It was after the 100 day project. So I faced 100 fears. The last one was to speak on TEDx, and that's what launched my career as a speaker. And that was in 2015. So I started speaking 2016, let's say.
(35:40):
And so they hired me to speak at ESPN and I was very nervous but very excited. And then the speaker that went right before me was the most exceptional speaker you can think of. And guess what? She was also the first speaker today at the event. So full circle. Yes. Hi Carla. Yeah, so she was amazing. She was exceptional. And then I had to follow that act and I was so nervous. I experienced the imposter syndrome. I'm like, if that's a speaker, I'm not a speaker, I am not that. And I was just starting. So I felt very intimidated by her and I thought, I have to be more like her. I have to be more polished. I have to speak perfect English, I have to answer better. She's answering all these awesome questions. It was horrible, that feeling of comparison. And then after the event, I went to the happy hour and I was hesitant to go, but I'm so glad that I went because that night so many people approached me to tell me that I was also one of the highlights of the day for them, and that they appreciated how real I was and what I thought was my imperfect side of myself was exactly what resonated with them.
(36:43):
So the more real you are, the more you can own who your authentic self, your story, that's what people want to hear more than anything else.
Mel Robbins (36:51):
Amazing. It's so true. It's so true. So another question to ask you is, so you're doing a couple sessions at the event today and you're nervous, other than thinking about what's the best that could happen. Are there any other strategies that you use in those moments where the fear starts to rise up and your nervous system goes into a state of being on alert and you start going, oh shit. Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit. What else do you personally do that you can give to somebody listening as a little technique to get your shit together?
Michelle Poler (37:30):
Okay, one of the things that helped me is that I realized that I let go and I calm myself down when I dance. Reggaeton. Yeah, it's crazy.
Michelle Poler (37:42):
But when I realized that, I was like, I need to include that in my presentation. I love that. That's how you
Mel Robbins (37:47):
Take the stage, right?
Michelle Poler (37:48):
That is, yeah. So whenever they say, welcome, Michelle, I play my song. I go on stage and I start dancing Dura from Daddy Yankee and I dance all out and it's really uncomfortable. I'm the only one dancing. I try to make people dance, but they don't mostly at very corporate settings, they stay in their seats and they're petrified looking at me while she's dancing.
Mel Robbins (38:09):
Or if you've got the 8:00 AM slot in Las Vegas and you're the first session and there's literally like an eighth of the chairs are filled, nobody's up front and you're dancing like a maniac on the stage alone. Yes,
Michelle Poler (38:24):
Exactly.
Mel Robbins (38:25):
Now are you still afraid to do that?
Michelle Poler (38:26):
I'm not. I remember at the beginning I would tell my husband, because we travel together, we always speak together. And I was like, I'm not doing it every single time. And he was like, you are doing it, Michelle. So I needed him to convince me every time, and now I feel like I need to now I know that every time I dance, I feel so much better afterwards. So that would be one of my advices. Try to find what calms you down. See how if you can incorporate that into your speech.
Mel Robbins (38:53):
I actually have a different reason why that works.
Michelle Poler (38:55):
Do
Mel Robbins (38:55):
You want to know why that works? Yes. Because nervousness and excitement is the exact same thing physiologically. And so you are hijacking your state of nerves and aiming it at dancing, which is a state of excitement. And so in that moment, you take control of your physiological state by dancing. So it's not at all about calming down, it's about you channeling nerves
Michelle Poler (39:21):
Into
Mel Robbins (39:22):
A really exciting thing, even though it makes you uncomfortable to do it on stage. Yes. That's super cool. Alright, I know you have a plane to catch.
Michelle Poler (39:30):
Yeah, it's crazy.
Mel Robbins (39:32):
It is so crazy. Thank you for reaching out to me. I'm thrilled that you did. I am super excited to share your work with our listeners. I love supporting other women. I can tell on the corporate stage. And I also applaud the fact that A, you reached out and B, when I said, yeah, come on by. You said I got 20 minutes, but I got to catch a flight, but I'm going. And then when you walked in here, what did you say?
Michelle Poler (40:02):
I said that I forgot my laptop
Mel Robbins (40:04):
At the convention. So you sent your husband back, you came in here. We are getting it done. You're going to get it done tomorrow. One final thing that I'm sure everybody asks you, what is the next fear? You're going to conquer a
Michelle Poler (40:21):
Second baby. That would be my next fear.
Mel Robbins (40:24):
Why are you afraid of that?
Michelle Poler (40:25):
Because I just had one and I know exactly what it means, but at the same time, no, actually no, you don't. No,
Mel Robbins (40:32):
No, you don't.
Michelle Poler (40:33):
Right?
Mel Robbins (40:34):
You don't know. Maybe I don't. No, you don't. Because two is very different than one and it's a totally different human being and the labor will be totally different and the pregnancy will be totally different.
Michelle Poler (40:43):
Yeah, I hope. No, no, no. Yeah. So just having one and going through all the entire experience was amazing, but at the same time, it was two years of being away from what I love as my job and all of that because I chose to be very present at home. So just right now I feel like, ah, I'm finally back. Me, Michelle is back. That's how I feel. And now we're like, okay, let's try for a second one. And we're like, ah, without you,
Mel Robbins (41:12):
I can see why that's nerve wracking and that's why you got to face it, right?
Michelle Poler (41:15):
Exactly. Yes, yes, yes. We have to. If it's something that you really want, doesn't matter the fear, you have to go for it and yeah.
Mel Robbins (41:23):
Amazing. Any final words?
Michelle Poler (41:25):
Any final words? What's the best that can happen? What's the best that can happen? Hello? Fears? Yeah. Hello, fears. Thank you. Thank you so much to meet you. Thank you. Oh my God, I'm glad
Mel Robbins (41:36):
We did this.
Michelle Poler (41:36):
Me
Mel Robbins (41:37):
Too. So I just want to highlight a couple really important things that just happened. You have a big, beautiful, amazing life that is just waiting for you to trust, fall into it. And when you listen to Michelle and I bantering on and on, we've never met before, ever. Everything that you heard was the whole conversation and she left and our meeting was all about leaning into life. That trust fall that I'm talking about, that what's the best thing that could happen? What if it all works out? And when you place a bet on life and you place a bet on yourself to face something, to believe that it's all going to work out, that you're going to figure it out. Magical things happen. Magical things. And so I want to highlight the fact that just like Michelle was talking about how she was alive but she wasn't living, there are aspects in your life where you're that way too and there's something bigger, a higher purpose, more available to you, but only if you're willing to do that trustful.
(43:10):
And I'm focusing on public speaking because it's the number one fear that people have and I want to give you tools and I want to talk about how I manage my nerves, but at some point you're going to have to stop gripping and let yourself fall. And so number one, she reached out. I'm sure there was a little bit of fear and trepidation there because she's running all over the place where I used to be probably six years ago, and I'm somebody that she really looks up to and I'm sure you've had the experience of texting people you admire and they don't respond at all. So she dms me, there's one facing a fear. I then say, yeah, come on by. And she follows up and she does, even though she's got two hours to catch a flight and she has to be across country tomorrow morning for another speech and she comes up here alone, even though it would've been really easy, wouldn't it have for her to be like, oh my God, I left my laptop.
(44:09):
I got to go back and get it. Instead, she sent somebody else back and she came. There's another trust fall. I texted her and said, great, we're going to have the mics on because I want to ask you a few questions. She was like, I'm in trust fall. And she just poured into you and it was awesome. Didn't you just love her energy? You root for somebody like that, and I'm telling you, there is energy. There's an aliveness inside of you, a vibrancy that will come when you are willing to push through your fears and it could look like anything. Honestly. I'm just sitting here right now in this hotel room in Dallas, and I'm looking at my friend Amy, who did her first standup routine in New Jersey in three years. She hasn't done one in three years trustful, and there's something that you want to do.
(45:01):
I know my son wants to go skydiving for his 18th birthday. I made him a promise. I do it with him. It is my biggest fear other than being buried alive, but I do not want to do it. I am starting to feel a little bit of vomit in the back of my throat and a nervous stomach just even thinking about it, but I'm going to do it because I also want to reach and experience the full potential of my life. And I know every time that fear holds me back from reaching out to somebody from saying, fuck it, I'm going to go try that thing to raising my hand when I'm nervous about how people are going to respond to jumping into something that I know nothing about. I'm limiting myself and you're doing the same thing. And so here's what we're going to do when we come back.
(45:55):
It's going to be tomorrow morning and I am going to take you on the road with me backstage to this huge event in Dallas. There's 3000 women in the food service industry, executive leadership up and comers, really important event, and I'm the closing keynote speaker and you'll hear backstage all the noise and commotion, and I will tell you exactly what I do to manage the nerves that come up because you know what? I want to crush it. I want to literally destroy it on that stage, and so I care about what I'm doing, so of course I'm going to feel a little bit nervous or is it excitement? Well stay with us and I'll take you to the event tomorrow and you'll find out, Hey, it's Mel and I wanted to jump into the middle of that podcast episode you were watching to make sure you knew about a free opportunity that I created for you.
(46:56):
It's a new three part training called Take Control with Mel Robbins. It is packed with science. It is packed with action. It's exactly what you need right now. I know that you are tired of feeling like you're in survival mode. You're tired of merely coping, and it is time to tap back into your excellence and power again. Let me coach you, let me guide you on the steps that you need to take in order to level up and start executing. It's going to feel so great to start winning again. All you got to do is click on the link right there in the caption. It's mel robbins.com/take control. It is free. It is for you and you need to be in it. Now, let's go back to the podcast.
Mel Robbins (47:39):
I am here at the Dallas Convention Center and there are 3000 chairs out there and we have just run through the tech rehearsal and I'm going to tell you a little secret about how I manage my nerves and how I flip it into excitement. This is something you can steal. There's always a reason why you are doing something. When you can find the reason or the purpose for why you want to either give that speech or destroy the sales presentation or walk into your boss and advocate for yourself because of the contributions that you're making or you just want to find the courage to stand up in a town meeting and talk, there's always a reason why. And so before you're about to do it, one of the things that you want to do is you want to remind yourself of why this matters to you. I want to, for example, at work, I want to be compensated and valued for my contributions, and it's my responsibility to make those contributions known. And so I'm going to be super proud of myself. If and when I say this or I want to make a difference in my town, I'm going to have to start speaking up because my voice needs to be heard.
(48:56):
I don't want to be complaining about what's going on in this town in my own house. I want to be advocating for what changes I'd like to see make because I can make a difference. For me, whenever I give a speech, I always say the same thing to myself. I say that, yes, there are 3000 seats here, but I'm only ever talking to one person. And I believe that there is one person in this audience today who is here because they are meant to be here, and there is something that I am about to say that will change their entire life, that they're going to learn something that might cure their anxiety or that might help them through a very, very, very dark moment. To know that this is temporary. There is someone that's going to be inspired to make a major change, and I know that in the course of the hour that I'm speaking on this stage, something is going to happen that is meant for that person.
(49:54):
And if I trust that, it allows me to just ditch the script and show up as my full highest express self look. It might be that I trip on the stage coming out, not planned, but somebody in the audience seeing that, wow, if that woman on the stage trips and she gets back up, maybe I can stumble and get back up too. Look at how she just brushes it off and she doesn't care. What if I had that? I mean, it could be that. It could be something really profound like getting sober or leaving a really abusive marriage. So I remind of that and I'm only ever talking to one person, and that helps me. It helps me to stay focused and to know that what I'm about to do, even if it makes my stomach twist and knots, or even if I'm a little nervous about how it's going to go, it helps me stay aligned with my purpose.
(50:47):
And that's where your power alley is always in life, and that's why it's so important for you to push yourself to express yourself and advocate for yourself and share your story. And so steal that idea. Remind yourself of why you're doing this. Only talk to one person and tell yourself that there is a person in this room and you are meant to say something in this room because somebody needs to hear you say it. And when you trust that it's not about you, it's about the impact that you're about to make. Okay, we should get off the stage because we got to go backstage and get ready. I go on in about an hour, and this is normally the dead zone for people where they've practiced, they've run through something and now they wait. And this is where your nerves can get the worst of you.
(51:39):
So next up, after a short break for a word for our sponsors, I'm going to teach you the real trick from Harvard Medical School to reframe all those nerves backstage or right before or in anticipation, into excitement so that you can align yourself with your mission and express yourself. Alright, five minutes before I take the stage. And here's the big trick. We reframe fear into excitement. The thing about nervousness is nervousness is just your body trying to get you into an alert state because what you're about to do requires you to concentrate. For example, you get nervous before a test because it's important and you have to concentrate and you care about the outcome. You get nervous before giving a presentation because you have to pay attention and the outcome's important.
Mel Robbins (53:28):
I'm not nervous. Those aren't butterflies. Those are the wings of possibility. Ooh, that's nice. That's deep, Mel. Those are just me getting ready to do something that I care about and I'm excited to get out there and I'm excited to make a difference and I'm excited to express myself and I'm excited to push myself to do something like this. And so that's my little ritual. I don't dance around. I don't meditate. I don't get calm. I tap into excitement and I hijack the nerves and I label it something empowering and that settles my body and it makes my focus get really laser focused on the impact I want to make and that will help you perform. Okay? Let me explain why your stomach has butterflies when you're nervous and why you have to pee and why your heart races and why your armpit sweat. This is all part of an auto, an automatic response in your body to either something that is exciting or something that is stressful. And when you roll back the clock in terms of evolution, and you take a look at stress,
Key takeaways
You’ll never get better at public speaking if you refuse to practice, rehearse, and prepare. Nerves are often just unpreparedness in disguise.
Reframing nervousness as excitement is backed by Harvard research. Your body doesn’t know the difference, but your mind does.
Fear is your ego whispering lies about danger, when in reality it’s a signal that growth is on the other side.
Imperfection is power, not proof you don’t belong.
The question isn’t “What’s the worst that could happen?” It’s “What’s the best that could happen?”, and that answer changes everything.
Resources
-
- Show me the money! Here’s how to ask for the $$$ you deserve.
- Here’s my favorite quote from jazz great, Charlie Bird Parker. I was close!
- The Princeton Review: 10 ways to overcome test anxiety.
- Advances in Medical Education and Practice: effect of preparation on anxiety and performance
- I think the Pratfall effect explains why people usually root for the underdog.
- I'm in love with Michelle Poler and cannot wait to check out her book.
- Find Michelle on Instagram here and her YouTube channel here.
- Think you’re too busy? This theory says add more to your schedule, not less.
- Interested in extra cash as a nude figure model? Here’s how to do it.
- Harvard Business School research from Alison Brooks that changed my life.
2 Million Readers.
1 Life-Changing Newsletter
Simple and Straight-to-the-Point...
Just Like Mel.
