Is It Too Late? How to Repair a Broken Relationship With Your Friend or Family Member

(00:25:28):

And that relates to the second common mistake, and that is using guilt thinking that you're going to motivate your child through guilt. I'm currently writing an article called The Last Jewish Mother because I'm Jewish, and it was sort of a trope in the culture about the Jewish mothers can kind of guilt trip their kids into contact The joke, how do you get a Jewish mother to change the light bulb? Don't worry, I'll just sit here in the dark. So the idea, it's sort of an affectionate trope that the mothers could use guilt to motivate their children, but I call it the last Jewish mother because parents can no longer do that. Guilt is now considered a toxic, coercive, corrupt the book a force. It's pathetic to the idea that the adult child doesn't owe the parent anything and shouldn't feel guilt. So using guilt is not going to work, including statements like how miserable the adult child's making the parent feel through the estrangement.

(00:26:27):

Third common mistake, and I see therapists enabling this mistake, is returning fire with fire. If the adult child says something angry or assertive or critical, that the parent fires right back at them and tells them they're ungrateful and challenges them and says, you can't talk to me that way. You need to respect me. And it may be true that they want respect, but returning fire with fire never works. The fourth is assuming that it's all about the parent, which goes to what you and I were talking about before. There may be not as much contact because the adult child's more preoccupied with their own life, their own children, their own career, their own social lives. What I tell parents is, look, when we have adult children and grandchildren, they're front and center of our minds, our heart, our consciousness. But for our adult children, that's not the same.

(00:27:21):

We're not at the front of their hearts and minds and consciousness. And I know that was true with my own parents as well when they were alive, and I was very close to them, to my parents. So I just knew that when I called my parents or visited to them, that, I mean, I liked both, but I knew it meant much more to them than it did to me. Similarly, if my adult children call me or visit me, I know it means more to me than it does to them. So the mistake is sort of not knowing, assuming that every bit of distance or non-responsiveness or not returning that text right away or that email or whatever is personal because once you make it personal, then you are on the pathway to estr room. The final mistake is not knowing is failing to recognize how long Es strange would takes to reconcile, but it's a marathon, it's not a sprint.

(00:28:09):

And then even if you're taking the best next steps that it still may be a matter of months or even years before you can get your child to respond. So those are the most common mistakes that I see. Well, let me add one more, and that is one of the key parts of my strategy with parents is helping them write an amen's letter where they take responsibility, where they're not defensive, they don't explain, they find the kernel, if not the bush of truth in their children's complaints. And the common mistake I see with letters is that they say, well, if I did anything wrong or I'm sorry you feel that way, or those kinds of things which aren't really taking responsibility and not really facing the hard cold truth about the mistakes that they made. Because as parents, we all make them, but it's a hard thing to do. I mean, I didn't love doing it myself when I did it, but it is the most effective way to potentially bridge a distance between a parent and an adult child.

Mel Robbins (00:29:08):

What I would love to do is go mistake by mistake and unpack it a little bit more so that we can understand how that mistake that we make when we're trying to make amends or trying to make contact with somebody who has cut us off, how it backfires and what it feels like for the person that has cut you off. I think that would be helpful. The first one was, it was to think that things should be fair. So why is that a mistake, and if you think things should be fair, what do parents do that backfires?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:29:45):

Yeah. Well, one of the things that I teach parents, particularly who've been in a longer term estrangement, is the principle of radical acceptance.

(00:30:53):

Because that's how it feels to the adult child, and the parent has to get on the same page as the adult child. If this parent comes across as being defensive or blaming or not willing to take responsibility, game over, the adult child's going to go, well screw you that I'm not going to have a relationship

Mel Robbins (00:31:07):

With you. This is why I did it in the first place.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:31:09):

Exactly. That's right. That's right.

Mel Robbins (00:31:12):

And I think resentment is the powerful word there because in this feeling that things should be fair, what you're not saying is I resent the fact that I gave you fucking everything and this is what you're doing to me.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:31:30):

Right, exactly.

Mel Robbins (00:31:31):

And I see this even in myself. We were just yesterday after school quickly trying to find a black suit for my son for prom this weekend, and we went to three different places. Thankfully we found something and I turned to him and I said, Hey, can you give me a lift home

(00:31:55):

Before practice? And he said, oh, mom, it's going to make me late for practice. And I caught the words before they came after my mouth out of my mouth. But what I almost said to him, Dr. Coleman, was, are you fucking kidding me? I just spent an hour and a half with you and spent hundreds of dollars on a suit to support you. You can't drive me 10 measly minutes home. And then I thought for a second, not because I was talking to you today, but I was like, how is shaming or being resentful or that is a example of how I think I'm trying not to be transactional. I'll love you in if I buy you shit, you need to do something for me, but it's hard. And so I can see how that opinion that I'm doing this for you. So it has to be fair on my terms, on my terms because I could step into his shoes, which is what you basically ask your clients to do to get from the one side of the table to putting your arm around your child and trying to see it from their point of view.

(00:33:06):

I basically took him shopping. That was the window that was convenient for me. And so from his side, he was also accommodating me and he didn't want to be late, which I can understand based on values. So I love that because I think the resentment piece is what somebody who cuts you off picks up on or this transactional thing, talk about guilt for a minute. So is guilt part isn't guilt kind of similar to the It should be fair, so you should be doing that. It's kind of part of this whole thing.

Mel Robbins (00:34:53):

So let's put everybody kind of in a therapy session with a family. You're with parents or a parent who has been estranged from a child or another family member. Where do you start with them?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:35:09):

Well, one of the things I tell parents, because most typically it's the parent who wants the therapy and the adult child is being kind of coaxed into it. Either I'm reaching out to them to see if they'll do it, I'm helping the parent reach out to them in a way that will make it more likely that the adult child would consider doing the family therapy. But what I explained to both parent and adult child, particularly parents, is that reconciliation therapy is not marital therapy. In marital therapy, you both equally come in with equal what the marriage can look like, negotiate you, compromise, you meet somewhere in the middle. Reconciliation therapy with an adult child is much more on the adult child's terms because they've already shown that they're willing to walk and that from their perspective, they're not in the same kind of pain that the parent is.

(00:35:54):

Now, they may have been in pain that caused them to cut off the parent, particularly if it was an abusive parent, et cetera. And there were childhood traumas and childhood traumas do exist. I'm not at all saying that they're a myth. I'm saying that we overstate them, but there's certainly plenty of kids who have had real childhood traumas. And so they feel a certain sense of endangerment in getting into the room with the parent to consider reconciliation because they feel like estrangement is a way to protect themselves and their mental health. So I make it clear to them as well that I have your back, that this is really about helping your parent learn how to become more empathic, to become more respectful of your boundaries, to learn more, to take more responsibility for the ways that they were hurtful to you, and to have a deeper understanding of why you felt like an estrangement was in your best interest.

(00:36:44):

And I told a parent that as well, because I don't want them to get into the therapy session and then feel kind of broadsided by me. I always say to them, if I side with anybody in the session, it's going to be with your adult child because first of all, it's the only way to keep them in the room. But second of all, it's just how I think about these dynamics. I think that even parents who did the best they could could still be really hurtful. And even if it's something that might not have felt hurtful to some other family member, if it felt hurtful to that adult child, it's still incumbent on us as parents to take the lead, to take the high road to show leadership and to make the moves in the right direction towards healing. So my experience is that if we can get past that initial phase of therapy where the parent can do a good job in empathizing and taking responsibility and accepting the child's terms, then we can kind of proceed to a new phase where the parent can talk more about what a good relationship would feel like to them.

(00:37:41):

And the adult child at that point is more willing to consider that than necessarily guaranteed to consider it. But they're in a much better place if they know that there are other boundaries and limits could be accepted and adopted.

Mel Robbins (00:37:53):

Can you, and have you achieved reconciliation with people when the person that cut them out of their lives won't come to reconciliation therapy?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:38:05):

Sure. I mean, sometimes it's just as simple as a really good amen's letter. I mean, a really good amen's letter can work miracles. That said, they don't always work. There's really nothing I can tell every parent that, gee, if you only just do Coleman's five steps towards reconciliation because some adult children, they're just not ready. They're too mad or hurt. They're too influenced by the other parent after a divorce. They're too influenced by their therapist, by who they're married to. 

Mel Robbins (00:38:51):

Let's talk about the amends letter and the five steps to reconciliation. And again, whether it's an adult child or it's a sibling or it is a friend or your parent is the one that peaced out and you don't know why, I can't tell you. I have sat in the last month next to people on planes who have disclosed to me, one man in particular said, I'm a fan of your podcast. Could you please do something about estrangement? In his case, it was a daughter with mental health issues who they have not talked to in seven years.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:39:29):

Common.

Mel Robbins (00:39:30):

But that's something that I keep thinking about, which is I know a lot of people that are dealing with this, and so I wanted to do an episode because this is way more common than I think the studies even indicate.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:39:46):

I totally agree with you,

Mel Robbins (00:39:47):

And there is a tremendous amount of content. I agree with you, coaching people to cut people out, to have boundaries, which are important. We may differ a little bit in terms of the influence of childhood trauma on adult behavior. I think our difference probably has more to do with how much people lean on it versus taking responsibility for healing it. But when you get to that point where you feel like, I don't have the ability to have this person in my life, it's easier to just stop having a relationship with them. What are the five steps for somebody who's on the receiving end of that? We don't talk about that a lot. We don't talk a lot about, look, your parents did the best they could. If you look at the way your parents were treated growing up, it explains a lot about what they did doesn't justify it, Dr. Coleman.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:40:48):

No, I agree,

Mel Robbins (00:40:49):

But it certainly explains it. But what are the five steps to reconciliation?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:40:54):

Yeah. Well, it kind of depends on who the person is, who's seeking the help. I increasingly am having more adult children contact me who the parents cut them off, really, they're the ones who want help. Or even if the parents haven't cut them off, they just want an improved relationship. But I'm happy that my book speaks to the adult child as well, because it was written for the parent. It typically requires leader. I mean, if the adult child contacts me, then I'll reach out to the parent, but I'll also explain to them my method in the same way that if they were the ones who had reached out to me, and I'll say that this is the way that I work. So you need to know that before you sign on to doing any sessions with me, if you imagine that my goal is going to just be to side with you about how terrible your kid is, it's not going to happen.

(00:41:44):

So I'm very clear about that as a kind of a framework. Siblings are more complicated because for parents, it's very easy for me to get a parent to take the high road to take responsibility in so much pain. And there's this kind of a role violation of if a child cuts off a parent, there's a feeling like, well, it is my obligation to heal this. And I clearly, even if they feel like they're innocent, they can feel a great enormous sense of shame that their child feels like they've failed. So there are parents who won't do what I tell them to do. I can't help them if they won't. I tell parents, this isn't about right or wrong per se. It's about, it's kind of about the practicality. I mean, I do think that there is a moral basis to what I preach. The parents should take the high road that their children didn't choose to have them, and therefore it is incumbent on parents to take the high road and take responsibility and not get pulled into the weeds and not return fire with fire.

(00:42:41):

But there's not a third option. Parents sometimes want me to help them see how unfair their kid is being or that kind of thing. That just doesn't work. But anyway, with siblings, it's more tricky because parents are willing to walk over hot colds, which is sometimes required, but siblings typically aren't. So somebody has to take the high route. Somebody has to be willing to not get pulled into the weeds to make amends. You'd probably take more responsibility than they think is fair. I mean, if both siblings are equally motivated to heal the relationship and I have worked with those kinds of siblings, that's easier. Then it's more like marriage therapy, then you can examine the dynamics that shape them both and get them learn how to communicate more and kind of make the unconscious processes much more conscious. But more typically, one sibling is completely estranged and the other sibling is in pain about the estrangement. So typically the person who's in the most pain has to show more leadership. So that's the tricky part.

Mel Robbins (00:43:39):

I love what you said. Before we jump into the five steps, I just want to take a highlighter and make sure that everybody heard something that you said. You said that your personal belief is that the parents have a moral obligation to take the higher road because they chose to bring their children into the world. 

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:44:43):

Exactly. And

Mel Robbins (00:44:45):

That doesn't mean they owe us anything. If anything, it means we owe them something.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:44:50):

Yeah. I mean, I would argue, I would say two things of that. One is that I extend that even to wills. Like a lot of the parents in my practice have been treated miserably by their adult children. And it wouldn't surprise me. I'm sympathetic to some of these parents who want to cut their kids out of their will, but I say I, I don't support parents doing that.

Mel Robbins (00:45:09):

Why? It seems like my natural reflection is, of course, if you're going to cut me out of your life, why the fuck would I give you any money? Because I've been paying for your ass your whole adult life. Why would I continue to do that if you don't even, do you see how quickly I could go into that? I'm an angry, resentful parent.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:45:29):

Sure, yeah. No,

Mel Robbins (00:45:31):

Why would you say that? Why should somebody who's had a kid cut them out, actually give them money?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:45:37):

Yeah, no, I totally understand. And I'm sympathetic to any parent. The reason is that we're parents forever, and we're parenting long after we're gone. I mean, my parents are both dead and they still continue. Their influence still persists with me some good ways and some bad ways. But I don't think our responsibility as parents ends when we die. And as much as I hate the way some of these adult children treat their parents, how contemptuous, how rejecting they are, how much they've eviscerated the life of the parent, I still think that the role a parent continues after the parent dies. And it's also an issue, a question of what do you want your legacy to be? Do you want your legacy to be that you punished your child from the grave? And that doesn't mean parents have to give their child every single penny, but that they might give them what they would give them if they were still alive, A and B, if there's other siblings, it greatly complicates a sibling relationship if one of the children is cut out of the will.

(00:46:38):

Yes, I do think there's a moral obligation to parents. I think there also is a moral obligation to it from adult children that we've lost sight of in this culture. I actually do think that adult children owe the parents something. I just don't think that parents can demand that or extract it or guilt trip the child into doing it. But I think as a culture, some of these children who are estranging, their parents have been given a quality of life that their parents would've dreamed of. So the idea that the children just gets to say, well, you didn't go. I mean, some of the reasons that adult children cut off contact aren't because the parent was abusive or neglectful is because their therapist has convinced them that the parent was more responsible for how their lives turned out than they were. Or the kid got married to somebody who hates the parent, and the kid isn't strong enough to stand up to their spouse and say, no, they're my parents.

(00:47:30):

I want them to see them, and I want them to see their grandchildren regardless. So I think that in the same way that parents have a moral obligation, I think adult children do too. Now, that doesn't mean that they're obligated to stay in contact no matter how abusive or hurtful or critical or shaming, rejecting the parent is, but they are morally obligated to give the parent a time of due diligence to repair, to do therapy, to hear them out, to think of the parent in a more three-dimensional way, to view it from the perspective that you were saying earlier, that they did the best they could, not in a way that they're just get to be forgiven no matter how crappy their parenting was, but a perspective of compassion rather than contempt. So I think both sides, there's moral obligations.

Mel Robbins (00:48:15):

That's beautiful. It's really beautiful. I know in my own life, and I mentioned about my uncle never meeting his two grandkids, it was heartbreaking that they were at the memorial service. And I think you probably see that a lot that people show up in death because there is something deeper that connects us all. And I think that that's what that speaks to. And we have this inability as emotional beings to navigate what feels like endless landmines that can develop between us. And so what are the five steps that people can take in any situation, in any relationship where there has been an estrangement and you're the one, whether it's you want to take the higher ground or you're the one that's hurting more, what are the steps, doctor?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:49:15):

Yeah. Well, what I often tell parents is there's a lot more things you can do wrong then you can do, right? So the things you can do wrong are contained in the five most common mistakes that we've already discussed. The things that you can do are to show compassion, to take responsibility, to find the kernel, if not the bushel of truth in a child's complaints, to communicate that you know that they wouldn't cut off contact unless they felt like it was the healthiest thing for them to do. If you have no idea what the reasons are, and some parents don't, to say that it's clear I have significant blind spots as a parent or as a person that I don't have a deeper understanding, but I want to, would you feel comfortable writing me and telling me more about what your thoughts or feelings are that make you feel like this is the healthiest thing for you to do?

(00:50:04):

I promise to listen or read purely from the perspective of learning and not any way to defend myself on the one hand, to not give up. But at some point you might have to stop as a show of respect. So for example, if you're getting your letters returned to unopened, returned to sender, threats of the police called on you, communicating through an attorney or your kid just gets so unraveled and you should just stop completely for a year. Sometimes stopping completely works because the adult child can feel like the parent is respecting their boundaries. Finally, it can make them respect the parent more if they're not just continuing to try. No matter what that old saying, how can I miss you if you don't go away? Sometimes true in family life, it can create that sort of space for the adult child to come into.

(00:50:52):

So there's a lot of reasons why sometimes just stopping completely is the right thing. But a lot of it, and this is particularly to a parents who've been victims of parental alienation, where they've been brainwashed against the parent by the other parent after a divorce, is to embody what I call kind of the lighthouse model, that you're just there on the beach, you're steady, you're broadcasting light from its definite point on the beach while your child is being pushed up and down out at sea by the waves. And sometimes they'll come out and see you standing on the beach there broadcasting light, and they'll get oriented towards you, but then they'll be carried back out to sea and pushed underwater again. But your task as a parent is to be steady and loving and compassionate and available and responsibility taking and hope that over time your child can find their way back to you through those efforts.

Mel Robbins (00:51:42):

Can you define or can you describe what an amends letter is and how you write one?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:51:48):

Sure. First of all, they're much shorter than the parents often think they should be. Typically two paragraphs. As much as I recommend, you don't want it to be so long that so much rope that you're going to hang yourself with it. They should be courageous In aa, they talk about making a fearless and searching moral inventory of your character flaws. I think the same is true of an amen's letter to if your child has made complaints about you, to be able to really fearlessly say what those were and how you can see how that could have impacted your child, how that might've been hurtful or traumatizing to them, or damaging to them or affected their feelings of trust or safety or security in you or the relationship with you. That's critically important to not blame anybody else, to not make excuses, to not say, well, I was a single mother.

Mel Robbins (00:53:20):

What was it like for you to write one to your daughter when she cut you off?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:53:24):

Well, I mean, two things that go into it. One is this going to work, and the other is just having to face the reality of some of her complaints. I mean, I can empathize with the ways that she felt sort of sidelined when I remarried and other children and how my children from my second, my current marriage, had a much better quality of life and were raised in the context of a stable marriage. And she didn't have that. And she kind of went back and forth between two homes. There was conflict with me and her mother, and there was a lot there to be hurt and upset and feel displaced about. So it was very painful. There've been numerous times where we've cried together about it because it was, yeah, just really painful.

Mel Robbins (00:54:07):

What was her response to your letter?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:54:10):

Good. I mean, to her credit, what I tell parents is I was just lucky that my daughter had whatever it is that causes an adult child to forgive and to accept. Not all parents, their parents who are just as dedicated or empathic as me or communicate just as well or better than I did, who's the adult child or isn't willing or able to do that. But I was lucky that she was able to, it didn't happen right away, and it often doesn't, why I say it's often a marathon, not a sprint. So took a while and actually we had a number of conversations. It wasn't just one simple thing like, oh, great clouds departed all this forgiven. No, it still comes up periodically. I mean, not a lot, but those kind of things are fault lines in a parent, adult child relationship that probably exist in some form will always be there in one form or another.

Mel Robbins (00:55:05):

What if you're the one that's in the middle? So I've been in a situation where my two closest friends, one cut the other one off and didn't talk to her for three years, and I was in a relationship with both of them, and one kept trying to reconcile an absolute stonewall from the other. What do you do if you're the sibling or the other child, or you're kind of the friend in the middle?

(00:56:43):

They know how much pain you're in, so you're better off saying to them something like, look, your sister, your brother's estranged. Either we don't understand it or we do understand it, but I don't want you to feel like you have to sort of repair my self-esteem by making me feel like I'm a great parent or whatever. You may have the same complaints about me, or you may have different complaints, but I want you to feel like that there's room to do that without worrying about being overly burdensome to me. Now, if you're the friend, it's sort of a similar dynamic where you don't really have that kind of power to really change very much about it, and you don't really, really won't serve your friendship to be overly allied one against the other, even if you think that one person's more at fault or more troubled or more difficult. And we've all got probably, most of us have at least one difficult friend. So we could be sympathetic to the other friend who's on the receiving end of that. But if you put yourself in a position of advocacy, it's not typically wanted. And so that can cause the person who's being advocated against to feel more misunderstood or ganged up on or that kind of thing.

Mel Robbins (00:57:55):

I think if there's one thing I'm taking away from this incredible conversation is that when this happens, there's typically on the part of the person that is estranged this story or feeling that you just don't get it.

(00:58:12):

And I'm tired of trying to explain it and I'm tired of you defending yourself, and it's just easier and better for me to remove this from my life right now. And that's why everything that you're counseling us, which is the opposite of how you're going to feel when you feel wrong or hurt or desperate to reconnect with somebody, that really you have to step into the shoes of the other person or at least give them the experience that you have. As much as it may seem unfair or it may seem like, or it may seem just, I dunno, I am sitting here, I can't even put myself in the shoes of somebody who's experiencing this even though there's estrangement on both sides of my family in extended family, and even though my two best friends didn't talk for three years. And even though I see examples of this everywhere, and I, it must be a profoundly painful and challenging and humbling thing to do to say, this is so important to me that I'm going to be the leader in this process. And the only way that we're going to make progress is if the person that's cut me out actually feels like they've been validated and understood without me defending myself.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (00:59:49):

Yeah. No, I think that's really well said. I guess a really good summary of what this looks like and feels, one of the challenges is that generations are often talking past each other. So important article by Nick Haslum, who's an Australian psychologist and he called it concept creep. And what he found was that over the past three decades, while his article came out in 2015, so it's more than that at this point, but there's been an expansion of what we consider to be hurtful, traumatic, abusive, neglectful behavior. So often the adult child's saying is, you neglected me. You were emotionally abusive, you traumatized me. And the parents are like, what? Because they're looking at it from the way those terms were defined when they were

Mel Robbins (01:00:36):

Growing

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:00:37):

Up, whereas the adult child was looking at it in a very different way. So often if the adult child's saying, you emotionally abused me, the parents particularly, a lot of these parents who've given their children a really good quality of life just can't relate to it. And so what I tell parents to say is, I wasn't aware that you, it's clear that I have blind spots that I wasn't aware that that felt emotionally abusive to you. I'm glad you let me know. I would like to learn more about what that felt like to you, how that's impacted you. Is there something you'd like me to read? Would you like to get into therapy around it? Are there things you'd like me to work on in my own therapy? So again, it's to the point that you were making, the parent has to really go toward the adult child's complaints rather than away from them. They do have to show a certain amount of courage and willingness to kind of get into the really painful territory of how the child feels like they neglected them or hurt them or let them down. And no parent really particularly wants to go there.

Mel Robbins (01:01:33):

Definitely

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:01:33):

Not. It's not a fun place to be.

Mel Robbins (01:01:36):

So when you get to the point where it's like, okay, I have gotten the message. You don't want to talk. I'm going to just go silent for a year. Do you send somebody flowers on their birthday? How do you engage with somebody who doesn't want to engage with you?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:01:54):

Yeah. Well, there's a difference between a kid who's a minor, which I would say that parents shouldn't give up versus a kid who's more full fledged adult.

Mel Robbins (01:03:04):

Wow, let's leave on a hopeful note because even you talk about this topic. And I literally panic and I'm like, oh my God, we always made them try to find the ride home from practice. That's emotional abuse. I had postpartum and couldn't be with my daughter for the first 12 weeks of her life, which made her feel invisible. And these are very real things, which we've talked about as a family, but it makes me scared like, oh shit, what if they marry? So I want to make sure that we leave with people feeling empowered. We are going to link to absolutely everything from your books to your workshop, to anything that you have about how you write an amen's letter so that people have a template. I would love to know if this is happening to you, what is the first couple steps that you want people to take immediately after listening to this?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:04:10):

I think, I'm not trying to sell my book, but I think get my book or attend some of my webinars just because it's a really complex thing and every story is a little bit different. But I think as an action step, I think the most powerful things to write are really good immense letter. And those also aren't really easy to do because they're kind of counterintuitive and getting to write them in a way that doesn't sound defensive or overly explanatory or et cetera. I think that's the single most important thing you can do. Stop defending, stop explaining. Assume your child has very good reasons even if you don't understand them, even if you feel like they're rewriting history to really approach them with a perspective of love and learning and respect for their boundaries or that they get to set the terms of the relationship. I think those are really the most important principles. And I think if people catch these dynamics early enough on, they're in a much better position than if it's gone on for a number of years, which is typically by the time parents reach me, it's been a number of years. So they often just have a bigger hole to dig themselves out of because they've already made all the mistakes that we all make when we're going through this.

Mel Robbins (01:05:16):

If you are in a situation where you are sensing that the boyfriend or girlfriend or new husband or spouse is starting to pull your child away from you, what should you do now to stop that sort of distancing that can happen?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:05:35):

Well, you have to see that that person is the gatekeeper to your child and to your potential or current grandchildren. So you can't say anything that's going to threaten them. And some people are married to really troubled people. So the more troubled your son-in-law or daughter-in-law is the more you have to kind of walk on eggshells. You can't demand anything from them. You don't want to say anything critical about them to your child because in all likelihood, it'll be passed on to that. Once that happens, you're kind of screwed. So if you have done that as many people have, then you want to work your tail off to repair that and make amends to that son-in-law or daughter-in-law, but they're the gatekeeper. They're the new alpha. Once your kid marries you are going to be diminished in the eyes of your child. You are in some ways being replaced. So it's not, parents aren't wrong to feel like they're being replaced because in some ways they are, but it's developmentally appropriate. But the more parents complain about it and don't accept that transition, the worse it is.

Mel Robbins (01:06:39):

In all the years that you've been counseling people on topics of estrangement, what is the hopeful message here?

Mel Robbins (01:07:19):

Why do you think that is? Why do you think we have a natural default toward wanting to reconcile even if we're the ones that cut somebody out?

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:07:31):

I mean, I think as people mature and grow, they're probably able to see their parents with more clarity. They may become parents themselves and either be able to face what that would be like, or they want their children to have a relationship with their grandparents. I think that even though the notion of family being forever is still is a more diluted concept than it once was, I think it's still part of our culture. So I think people do feel some kind of a tendency in that direction, which may motivate them more towards pursuing that. So,

Mel Robbins (01:08:04):

And one final question, Dr. Coleman. We started this by talking about this really interesting shift in culture that has led to this silent epidemic of estrangement where people are moving from the role to feeling like you're an individual. There is less emphasis on family and more on kind of your chosen family and your friends being the family that you choose. And I just want to know if you could tell us what you wish people were thinking instead, if this is the way that culture is going, as somebody who has been practicing and has been a therapist and an expert in this area, and you've seen the breakdown of relationships and the reconciliation of relationships, what do you wish you would see in our culture? And just kind of as a chance to say, there are millions of people that listen to this podcast, so I would love for you to just be able to drop a bomb on how people are thinking about this in terms of their parents and their own trauma and their own history and the importance of empathy on both sides.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:09:24):

Yeah. I think that we're sorely lacking in empathy and compassion in this culture, and it's ruining us as a society. And so having compassion and forgiveness, it doesn't mean you're giving somebody a pass who's been hurtful to you, but it does enable you to feel things in life or as a person or to have an identity that in some ways can feel more grounding. Sometimes people who are estranging have kind of a more victimized identity, will you hurt me? So I don't owe you anything, and I've been victimized by you, so I'm cutting you off, and that makes me a stronger person. Well, I don't really know that it does. I mean, it may provide a certain kind of insulation against certain kinds of experiences, but I think as a society, we have to do a much better job. I think parents have to do a better job in taking responsibility and showing compassion and empathy, and I think adult children have to do a better job and showing compassion and empathy for their parents. So I think both of those qualities on both sides are still, there's a lot more to do.

Mel Robbins (01:10:29):

Dr. Coleman, thank you so much for your work. Thank you so much for your wisdom. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been a real honor spending time and learning from you.

Dr. Joshua Coleman (01:10:40):

Likewise. It was good to talk to you.

Mel Robbins (01:10:41):

Thank you. Oh, well, I'm glad we ended with hope, and I feel very hopeful knowing that more often than not, your attempt to reconcile works if you give it time. Please share this with anybody in your life, whether they're the ones that cut somebody off or whether they're the person that got cut off because it was packed with tools and insight and wisdom that we all need to hear. And speaking of what we all need to hear, I want to make sure that you hear me tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I'm not going anywhere. I'm here Mondays and Thursdays. There is no estrangement between you and me. I'm going to hold your hand. I am going to put my arm around you. I'm going to do whatever I can to understand and to support you, because that's what I want to do. Alrighty, I'll talk to you in a few days. Okay, so lemme think about this. Well, hold on a second. I don't think I want to start there. Let's see. Lemme think. Why don't we just close this down and just kind of talk to, lemme start over. Oh my God, sorry. Okay, here we go.

(01:12:01):

These kids are yelling out there. Can't you see that a recording light is on? I'm going to a strange, these friends of my sons from myself, that's not a thing that could happen. Okay, here we go. Ha. Okay. Is that the cat or my, okay. He does not want to listen to the topic of estrangement, but you do. Okay, excellent. Oh, and one more thing, and no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it. Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Hey, it's Mel. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed that video, bye. God, please subscribe because I don't want you to miss a thing. Thank you so much for being here. We've got so much amazing stuff coming. Thank you so much for sending this stuff to your friends and your family. I love you. We create these videos for you, so make sure you subscribe.