Stop Wasting Your Time: How to Deal With People Who Won’t Change & What to Do Instead

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:27:46):

Realistically, you can model change, you can invite change, you can reward change, but you cannot make anyone change. Let me give an example of what I mean by model change because I think it's an important one. There's a story that may or may not be true, but it's sort of taken on epic fable proportions. Mahatma Gandhi, who was one of the leaders of the nonviolence movement in India in the 1940s, he became seen as the person that people would go to for wisdom. And in this fable that's told about him, he would receive people who would travel by foot hundreds of miles to come to him and ask for his wisdom. And one day this family came to him with their young child and said, "Gandhi Gi, we have traveled a long way. We've waited a long time for our turn and we need you to tell our son who's withering away, he must eat food and not just sugar.

(00:29:09):

All he will eat is sugar." Gandhi listened to them. He heard their request. He nodded with understanding, and then he said, "Please come back in two weeks." Not the response they were looking for. They had traveled a long way. They had waited a long time. Their son is withering away. "Wait two weeks. Why? "But out of deference, they go back home two weeks later, they make the long journey. They wait the long time for their turn. They arrive at his doorstep. They say," Now, please, Gandhiji, will you help us with our son? He's withering away. He's only eating sugar. "And Gandhi G said to them," My son, you must stop eating sugar. "Well, that seems like a bit of a buzz Kill after all of that. And they say to him, "Thank you, thank you. But with all due respect, why couldn't you say that two weeks ago?" And he said, "Because two weeks ago I was still eating sugar." So the first step when we realistically want to help someone change is to think about what we can do ourselves to model change.

(00:30:26):

Now that doesn't mean I'm not trying to add to our exhausted plate. I'm just trying to say in all the work we're doing ourselves, can we make it visible to others that we know this is hard and this is what we are struggling with. So if your partner's snapping at the kids, you keep telling them stop snapping at the kids and they keep snapping, they get defensive. What if you talked about the struggles you have sometimes with snapping at the kids? What if you mentioned that you noticed when you have a snack in the car before you come in to the house, it helps you take a moment? What if you talked about the things that you've tried that haven't worked and how embarrassed you are by the fact that they haven't worked?

Mel Robbins (00:31:17):

That's a super helpful story and example. The second thing that you said that we could do is invite change. What does that look like? What's

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:31:26):

An example

Mel Robbins (00:31:27):

Of inviting change?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:31:29):

Inviting means creating the conditions under which someone can do it and not feel self-conscious about it. So let's say your partner says, doesn't say, but let's say they are going to go ahead and like, "All right, so I'm not supposed to snap at the kids. Even though I'm tired, maybe what I'll do is try to tell a story about my day or I'll try to be funny and try to say something relatable, whatever." And when they do that, they come off a little awkward. The story goes on too long. They don't quite get it. The kids are tuning out. If I in that moment say, "What are you doing? This isn't helping." That's not inviting change because they just did something. They changed something. It didn't work, but they tried. So inviting change is allowing the unlearning to work through.

Mel Robbins (00:32:32):

Oh, so it's recognizing tiny attempts.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:32:36):

Yes.

Mel Robbins (00:32:37):

And having grace.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:32:39):

Yes.

Mel Robbins (00:32:40):

And just really understanding, oh, this is the unlearning process.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:32:47):

Exactly. They're

Mel Robbins (00:32:48):

Stumbling through it.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:32:49):

This is what it looks like. This is what it feels like. They're not going to all of a sudden know how not to snap at the kids.

Mel Robbins (00:32:54):

And what does reward look like? You

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:32:56):

Said we

Mel Robbins (00:32:56):

Could reward change.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:32:57):

What does that look like? Absolutely. In ways, depending on the situation, whether you do it publicly or privately, it's in whatever the love language is in your scenario, telling them you noticed it, you saw it, you appreciate it. If you think it worked, sincerely tell them, I think that really worked. I saw our daughter light up when you gave her that moment of attention. Thank you for hearing me. I know that was hard. You must be tired.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:33:48):

Right. Stop giving advice.

Mel Robbins (00:33:54):

Stop giving

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:33:54):

Advice.

Mel Robbins (00:33:56):

How do you know when it's time to stop giving advice?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:33:58):

Yeah. So I like the wait rule.

Mel Robbins (00:34:01):

What's the wait rule?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:34:02):

Why am I talking?

Mel Robbins (00:34:04):

Oh, wait. Why

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:34:06):

Am

Mel Robbins (00:34:07):

I talking?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:34:08):

Right. So I didn't come up with this. I don't think we know exactly who came up with it. It was popularized by Michael Bungestanier in his book, The Coaching Habit. The wait rule reminds us that when we're talking, especially if we're talking about someone else's problem, we're almost always talking at them, which means that agency, that sense of I am my own boss, we're taking it away. So the first question is, have they even asked for our advice? Most of us want to help the people we love solve their problems. That doesn't necessarily mean they asked us for help to solve their problems. And another great little rule of thumb I've heard is to ask people when we feel tempted to solve their problems. This one probably won't work in the workplace, but I think it works really well in families. Do you want to be heard, hugged, or helped?

(00:35:12):

And then my addition to that rule is or high-fived. Heard means they need to vent. In your example, the partner needs to vent. Hugged means they need to feel loved. Helped, they need my advice and they want it. They're asking for it. And the high fived piece that I've added is sometimes a lot of us want people to notice how hard we're trying, how exhausted we are, how well we're doing. And especially as women, we're not really given permission to just say that's what we need. So we kind of keep dropping the breadcrumbs, hoping someone will high five us. So heard, hugged, helped or high fived. So friend is complaining, they're never taking my advice. My first question is, did they ever ask for it, the advice? The second, let's say they are asking for the advice and they're not taking it. To name that, say, I know you've asked for my advice.

(00:36:13):

I'm really flattered by that and I'm always happy to offer it, but I got to ask you a question. When you ask for my advice, do you mean you want to be helped or do you want to be heard? Do you want to be hugged? Are you in pain? Do you want to be high-fived for the fact that you're a great partner and you're not getting the attention you want at home? Can you tell me a little bit more about what you mean by advice?

Mel Robbins (00:36:41):

This is so helpful and I love those four categories because I think when I'm in distress or I'm emotionally flooded, I often don't know what I need. And so when somebody asks those four things, I might even surprise myself. One mistake I've absolutely made is when somebody comes to me and they're feeling down, I make the mistake of trying to immediately lift them back up.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:37:06):

Ah, me too.

Mel Robbins (00:37:08):

Oftentimes when people come to you in a moment when they're down, they just want a hug.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:37:12):

They want to hug.

Mel Robbins (00:37:13):

They don't want the pep talk. They don't want to be told to be strong. They don't want you to fix this. They want to be reassured and comforted. And so I also like the heard, hugged, helped and high five because it stops me from stepping over a line.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:37:28):

I like that a lot. Yeah, absolutely. The funny thing is when I've asked this question, I mean, I haven't actually counted, but I think 90% of the time the answer I receive is heard.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:37:44):

Okay. So let's

Mel Robbins (00:37:45):

Talk about somebody who is always crossing the line. I have someone in my life that just has this love of the jab. I don't know if it's conversational style, but I bet as you're reflecting upon difficult people in your life that there are just some people that when they are there, you're on edge. You're just waiting for it. You're waiting for the political mark, you're waiting for the dismiss, you're waiting for them to say the passive aggressive thing. How do you handle somebody that is insulting

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:38:26):

Or

Mel Robbins (00:38:27):

Difficult?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:38:27):

I think a lot of people can relate to what you're describing and sometimes it's at the level of you're dreading the family gathering because that uncle is going to jab and often jab down, punch down. And by the way, they want you to take the bait. Now, listen, we do need to be careful because that person may be doing real harm to people in the room and to people out in the world, but what we can do in that moment with that person is rather than giving them more oxygen by going back and forth, we can take some of the oxygen out at the moment. How do you take the oxygen out? So he says the thing, you can say, ouch, or whoa, or my gosh, you don't look old enough to be that old-fashioned. Now realize what I'm not doing is inviting an argument.

(00:39:20):

What I am doing is telling everyone else in the room, that's not okay what we just heard.

Mel Robbins (00:39:26):

The only thing that I've ever said is something that I once heard Jefferson Fisher say, and it works like a charm, which is, did you actually mean to say that out

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:39:33):

Loud? Yes, I like that too.

Mel Robbins (00:39:35):

Because what are they going to be like? Yes, I meant to sound like a dickhead. And no, there's kind of a weird silence thing that happens and then you get up and clear the table. But often I just find it's not worth a response.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:39:51):

It's another example of you're not giving them oxygen, but you're also not endorsing it.

Mel Robbins (00:39:59):

Let's talk about dealing with somebody who gets really defensive.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:40:03):

Okay.

Mel Robbins (00:40:04):

The kind of person that is so hard to talk to because the second you try to give feedback, whether it's at work or it's to one of your adult siblings, they immediately get defensive. What do you do in that situation?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:40:22):

So this happens all the time. I get defensive when I get feedback. I've noticed other people get defensive when I give them feedback. Sometimes the problem isn't the defensiveness, it's the feedback.

Mel Robbins (00:40:35):

Oh.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:40:36):

And so let -

Mel Robbins (00:40:37):

But I want them to be the problem. I

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:40:38):

Don't want my

Mel Robbins (00:40:39):

Feedback to be

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:40:40):

The

Mel Robbins (00:40:40):

Problem,

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:40:40):

Doctor. Trust me, they are the problem, but let's figure out how we can show them that they're the problem. So feedback is a word that's often equated with adjectives. So what do I mean by adjectives? I might say to someone, "Your work isn't polished enough or it's not thorough enough. Polished and thorough are adjectives." There's a lot of ways to understand what polished means. They might think that means there's no typos. They might think that means there's good animation in their slides. They might think that means the way they talk to the customer. They might think that means that they're wearing certain clothes to work. I mean, polished could mean a lot of things. And so when we give feedback that's in adjectives, it's really easy for other people to become defensive because it's easy for them to argue with it.

Mel Robbins (00:41:42):

Oh, so how do you give feedback that somebody can't argue with?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:41:46):

The feedback that's hard to argue with and that's actually easier to act on. So if you're looking for a change, you'll actually get the change you want is it focuses on the behavior. So I might say, I've noticed that on the slides there are inconsistencies in the way we refer to the client's business. On one slide, it said they were in the hospitality business and in the other slide it said food and beverage. To me, that looks like we haven't gone through and done a thorough proofread. It's not polished enough. So do you see how once I laid out the actual behaviors, it's indisputable. It says hospitality here, it says food and beverage there. It's a specific behavior. And now I can say that's what I mean by it's not polished enough.

Mel Robbins (00:42:43):

Oh, you know what I felt as you were saying that?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:42:45):

What's that?

Mel Robbins (00:42:45):

I started to feel defensive.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:42:47):

Oh, really? Say more.

Mel Robbins (00:42:51):

Because I was realizing I am guilty of speaking in adjectives, especially with my family, because I get emotionally flooded when I see particularly just things that are a mess. And oftentimes when we're giving feedback, we're already in a state where we're annoyed, and that's how I can see that things could become very vague. I'm going to give you an example.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:43:22):

Let's do it.

Mel Robbins (00:43:22):

So I think I did a pretty good job on this. Okay.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:44:40):

Bed. Oh,

Mel Robbins (00:44:40):

Right. So normally

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:44:43):

The

Mel Robbins (00:44:44):

Old Mel volcano would pick up the phone and call Oakley and be like. And I took a deep breath and I put them all on text and I said, "Hey guys, just got home and wanted to share something with you." I took a photo of the beds and the towels on the floor and the wet bathing suits on the couch. And I said, "Does this look like leaving this in the way you found it? Is this representative of what you're capable of in terms of taking care of this house in the way that I've asked you to do?" "No, no, no. We can do better. "And I said," Great, because after being gone for eight days and working as hard as I do, walking in here and seeing that you've left this for me, doesn't feel good.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:45:53):

Right. Mel, that's amazing.

Mel Robbins (00:45:57):

I don't know how I had the restraint. I can even show you all the photos because once you see it, you're like, oh my God, we left the house like that? Uh-oh, she was coming home today? "If it was like that for seven days, I don't care, but not on the dynamic. You're not that dumb.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:46:15):

So what you did was another important dimension of feedback is to state your expectation. Good feedback at the workplace or at home includes a few elements. One, people have to know what good looks like, what the expectation is. So either they have to know in advance or if they didn't know in advance or you didn't know in advance how to convey it, once you saw what it wasn't, you were able to convey it. Then they have to know what you saw, heard, the actual behavior that was the photo for you. The photo was the behavior. So you stated the expectation, you gave what you observed in the behavior, and then you described the impact it had. And from what I heard in your example, there was no adjective and you didn't need one. The adjective is the least useful part.

Mel Robbins (00:47:07):

Yes. Let me give you another example. Let's say you are having trouble getting your family to help, whether it's help with the laundry or when you walk in the front door, don't just disrobe and drop it all right at the entry. They're cubbies. If you have a mudroom for a reason, can the shoes go in, the cubbies? You know what I'm saying? Can you get the laundry moving so that it doesn't sit after you do the wash and then rot in there and stink? Can we get some help? How do you get your family to help?

(00:48:52):

So maybe it is a 10 in that moment, but it's not always a 10. And I think sometimes the people around us hear everything as a 10 from us.

Mel Robbins (00:49:02):

And if everything's important, nothing is.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:49:04):

Exactly. Exactly.

Mel Robbins (00:49:06):

So you stop and ask yourself one

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:49:09):

To 10

Mel Robbins (00:49:09):

And what number am I acting on?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:49:11):

Exactly. No, I mean it.

Mel Robbins (00:49:13):

Which language?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:49:13):

Yeah. And if you and the person in your family are having a discussion about this thing on the ground right now, on a one to 10 scale, how important is it to them that it be dropped on the floor?

Mel Robbins (00:49:26):

Well, see, I assume it's a one and that's why I'm offended and it's a 10 because it's important to me, but it's not important to them. And if it were important to them, they would pick it up. Do you see what I'm saying? And this gets back to the -

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:49:36):

No, but how important is it to them to not listen to you?

Mel Robbins (00:49:39):

Oh, probably a 10 because their value might be, I'm my own person and you don't tell me what to do.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:49:47):

I've

Mel Robbins (00:49:48):

Been at college for two years, so I'm now an adult.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:49:51):

And this is my space. And when I come home from college and I don't feel like this is my space anymore and I don't feel like these are my rules anymore, need something to be mine.

Mel Robbins (00:50:01):

Ooh, you're really good. And also, if I've been working all day in the hot sun, washing disgusting windows in other people's houses and I've had to pull it together and manage people, I'm freaking exhausted and I don't care about your damn house because I'm coming in and I want to relax for a minute. Ooh, wow. I'm arguing about the thing on the floor, but we're completely missing each other.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:50:28):

Maybe.

Mel Robbins (00:50:29):

Because the 10 that's important for me is, "Hey, I need help around here." And the 10 that's important for the person you're trying to change are completely different topics.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:50:37):

I mean, what we do with my husband and I is if both of us are between one and seven, then whoever's the higher number wins and why are we even talking about this? Life is busy. Let's move on. And if either of us is an eight, nine or 10, there's something to be understood here and discussed. It's worth our time. It's worth my effort.

Mel Robbins (00:51:00):

I love that.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:51:06):

Oh gosh. Oh Mel, this feels like a dream sequence because I feel like this is a central growth area of my life. Adult

Mel Robbins (00:51:14):

Children. Is that

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:51:14):

What you're about to talk

Mel Robbins (00:51:15):

About?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:51:16):

Yes. And the universe is trolling me and I've learned so much from your work on this very issue. So let me step a little bit outside of my expertise as a social psychologist and more into just my lived experience of seeing how the science of growth works. My definition of hell on earth is watching someone I love suffer and not being able to do anything about it, being helpless. I honestly don't think there's any greater pain in this world. And I know that a lot of people have been in this position where in an instant we would take their pain, we would take their suffering, we would take their distress, but all we can do is bear witness to it. And that's what feels like hell. Sometimes what we think is supporting other people is us trying to deal with that feeling of hell. We're just trying to lower the pain of it by doing something.

(00:52:30):

And while it might make us feel slightly less helpless, it's probably making things worse.

Mel Robbins (00:52:42):

Why does it make it worse if you're providing the financial support or you're giving a place to live or you're doing the things that we want to do because we're trying, I think you're right, to feel like we're doing everything we can to support this person, but actually that soft cushion of support is keeping the person from hitting the edge of their experience and truly having to reckon with the consequences of the decisions that they're making and the patterns that they haven't been unwilling to unlearn yet or haven't been able to.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:53:29):

Yeah. I think that the way you described it is exactly my sense of it as well. I'm also centering my own needs in that moment. I don't mean to. I love this person so much, that's why this is happening. But by me doing the things that make me feel better, it's a little harder for me to see what they need.

Mel Robbins (00:53:49):

Have you figured out, because I know this is deeply personal for all of us and nobody can actually tell you when is the appropriate time to keep doing and offering support and paying for things and stepping in because that's the thing that makes you feel like you're doing what you can do and that's the thing that is the only part of this that you can control. And when is it that you say, "I recognize that this person does not want to change, they are not ready to change, and I am a participant at this point in propping up the dynamic. And the only thing I can do now is remove myself from the dynamic so this person has both the dignity of their own experience and they also have to feel the consequences of the way they're moving through life." It's so personal and I don't know if there's any kind of sliding scale rule or self-reflection to be able to really wrestle with yourself.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:54:59):

I think though, just recognizing that we know it's hard for us to grow, and then we've talked about having empathy for how hard it is for others to grow. Sometimes it's hard for us to let others

Mel Robbins (00:55:16):

Grow. I love that. You end two practices, Dr. Chugh, in your classes, you call it shout-outs and own its. Yeah. So what is shout-outs and own its and how can I and the person listening apply this?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:55:32):

Absolutely. Yeah. So one of the classes I teach is about how to be a good boss. And one of the things in that sort of leadership type of class that we talk a lot about is noticing what people are doing well and expressing it to them. Now, this is leadership. I'm talking about how to be a good boss in the workplace, but it applies broadly. We are leaders in our families. We're leaders in our communities. We are leaders in our religious organizations. And so what we're doing at the end of this class is asking for volunteers to shout out a classmate.

(00:56:29):

And now that they hear that someone else was also sitting with that question, they feel less anxiety that was that question, a dumb question.

Mel Robbins (00:56:36):

You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to take a photo of those bunk beds when those boys make it, and I'm going to put it in the group tax and shout it out. Great job,

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:56:42):

Guys. I love it. I love it. And then own it is taking ownership for a way in which you didn't kind of get it right that day. By get it right, I mean someone might say, "Listen, I want to own it. I had my phone out a lot during class today. I just had trouble being engaged and I'm really sorry. And I know it kind of affects everyone else when someone takes their phone out." Or, "I was late today. My small group had to get going without me and then spend time catching me up. I didn't manage my time right. I'm sorry."

Mel Robbins (00:57:14):

I love the own it.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:57:15):

I love the own it. And I have to say in class, one thing I was thinking about this coming semester is we get a lot more shout-outs than ownits, which makes sense. I mean, there's a lot more good than not going on, but I think I need to do more ownits myself to sort of motivate more ownits for my students as well, which is another thing we know about being a good boss is we want to be bringing out the best in others, but doing it in a way that shows we're taking accountability from when we're not at our best.

Mel Robbins (00:57:45):

Well, one of the things that you've taught us is that when it comes to trying to change other people, you can model, you can invite and reward. And shout outs are really. I'm really good at shout-outs. I notice all the things going well to a fault.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:58:03):

Okay.

Mel Robbins (00:58:04):

And if you over compliment people, then you create an inability to hear criticism or to hear feedback. And so the own it piece as a parent, as a colleague, as a friend, owning it where you didn't show up, where you flubbed something, where you threw your crap in the entry after yelling at everybody else, to me, that's modeling change and accountability.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:58:42):

I like that a lot.

Mel Robbins (00:58:43):

I do too.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:58:44):

I like that a lot.

Mel Robbins (00:58:45):

That's a big thing. I'm taking a lot of things from this conversation, but I am going to pull that and own it. I love

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:58:51):

It. I love it.

Mel Robbins (00:58:52):

In my life as a parent, as a friend, and I think we may do shout-outs and own its here in our meetings. I love that. Because I feel like the muscle of owning it when things aren't going well is something we can work on.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:59:06):

Nice.

Mel Robbins (00:59:07):

So thank you for that.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:59:09):

Absolutely.

Mel Robbins (00:59:10):

For the person who's listening, you have poured so much into us. I mean, when I think about what you've taught us about the difference between knowing better and doing better, this subtle but serious moment of needing to unlearn behavior before you can change it, oh my gosh, the two questions to end every day, the tool after tool after tool that you gave us from pushing to pulling to the one to 10 rule. There was just so much here.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (00:59:59):

Love it. We're

Mel Robbins (00:59:59):

Going to let Dr. Chugh, change him.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (01:00:02):

I would say, I bet everyone in your audience considers themself a lifelong learner. What would it mean to be a lifelong learner and a lifelong unlearner?

Mel Robbins (01:00:15):

Oh, simply by listening today and investing the time in yourself, you learned so much and having that I'm a lifelong learner, I need to unlearn some things to continue to grow and to not prove anything, but as you said, to be improving the way that I feel about myself and the way that I approach life and the way that I connect with other people.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (01:00:41):

Right.

Mel Robbins (01:00:41):

Amazing. Dr. Chugh, what are your parting words?

Dr. Dolly Chugh (01:00:46):

I would say that hope and energy lies in growth, to just lean into that. There's all this pressure on us. We're so exhausted. We're being pulled in every direction. And sometimes that makes us feel like there's no more to do. I cannot do anymore. And I promise you that when we allow ourselves into this space, this space of growth, of improving rather than proving, we will feel more hope and more energy.

Mel Robbins (01:01:15):

You promised at the beginning, Dr. Chugh, that we would feel lighter and we would feel a little bit more in control.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (01:01:26):

Yeah.

Mel Robbins (01:01:27):

And I feel that after talking to

Dr. Dolly Chugh (01:01:28):

You. You

Mel Robbins (01:01:29):

Do? Yeah. I want to thank you because I learned so much today. The conversation was not exactly how I thought it would be. Interesting. Even though we put a tremendous amount of upfront research in to get to the point to have the conversation. But what you really did for me today, and I bet I'm speaking on behalf of you as well as you're listening, is I really reflected on myself. I thought that I was going to come in here and get all the tips and tricks to diffuse the jerks out there and to manipulate people to change and to have everybody stop draining my energy. And what I realized is I'm actually draining my own energy. I'm the one who's holding this impossible standard over myself. And then to fulfill my own needs to feel good, I'm pressuring everybody else. And there's a very different way you can go about this.

(01:02:25):

And you made us smarter about change, the reality of it. And you also, I think, opened up this window of true compassion and empathy by helping us understand the dynamics. And I also appreciate the tactics.

Dr. Dolly Chugh (01:02:41):

Thank you. I love your synopsis. Thank you, Mel. This was great. Thank you for being you and thank you for having me here.

Mel Robbins (01:02:47):

Oh my gosh, it's such a pleasure. And thank you. Thank you for making the time to listen to this. I hope you found it as fascinating and as helpful. I hope you reflected on how hard you are on yourself, that good, goodish balance, that whole distinction between constantly trying to prove that you got it all done and that you're good versus just exhale. What if you're just unlearning and learning and improving and don't forget those two incredible questions. I love those. Did I do my best today and what did I learn? You start asking that and I promise you, you're going to learn a lot about yourself and you're going to grow into the person that you are meant to be. And in case no one else tells you as your friend, I wanted to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life and the tools that Dr. Chugh taught you today will help you create a better life and feel better in your life. I am certain of it. Alrighty. I'll see you in the next episode. I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play. Alrighty. Thank you for watching all the way to the end here on YouTube. Thank you for sharing this with people in your life who you're trying to change or who are really hard on themselves and need to change the way that they talk to themselves. There was so much in this. I know that your life is going to get better and so I'm thrilled that you have this as a resource. All right, you want to see something next? This is the next episode of the Mel Robbins podcast you're going to love, and I'm going to welcome you in the moment you hit play.